The Trump Summit in Egypt – Peace Through Strength in Action and predictions ft Syed Akbar

Welcome back to the Gutshot podcast with me of course our blogger extraordinaire uh say from outside the box and our global geopolitics commentator Samad on the world's biggest podcast

it is right so in our crosshairs today is of course the uh Trump peace talks in Gaza and we focus on Shamal shake the discussions that have been going on there hit us between the eyes uh say what's been happening

thank you thank you good morning well uh he has come and it is gone and is uh left it is going to leave behind a huge uh uh mark on uh the Middle East and on the world a huge mark on history. I'm referring to the Trump peace accord at Shah al-Shik. Quite an extraordinary achievement in a very short time because uh Donald Trump was able to assemble 27 world leaders at very short notice and uh the first the first outcome was that the level of hostilities in the Middle East has gone down significantly. I think everyone acknowledges that and the remaining hostages the 20 live hostages have been

released. So the immediate cause for the continuation of the war the hostilities has now been removed which is a significant achievement because the last two years have been quite uh quite taxing quite horrible for everybody. uh also uh to me more significantly uh is at the end of that u that meeting that they had in Shah al-Sh they did not sign any treaties but I uh I I hope you recall that that they had like a major media conference where there was a a sort of a official signing of a media statement by four heads of state Donald Trump uh President CC of Egypt,

President Erdogan of Turkey and the Amir of Qatar I think uh the Alani or something his name four heads of state uh basically signed a media statement which is quite unusual you don't have heads of states uh signing a media statement it was actually like almost like uh an official u official declaration of uh what they have done achieved and and what they would like to come out of the Shah al-Sh. The media statement was uh quite uh interesting. It was uh it was substantially not not too biased or leaning to anyone particular side but what what is significant is that uh there was no

mention of the setting up of a Palestinian state really. Okay. But there was mention of working towards amicle amicable resolution of conflict and they recognize the aspirations of all the people involved. The Palestinians

and the Israelis, the religion was mentioned, the Muslims, the Jews and the Christians. And also u uh the uh there was a reference to um to seeking peaceful resolution and uh avoiding avoiding uh situations which uh rely upon stirring up emot emotions, passions and uh hate kind of speech uh basically uh extremism. So the the statement said that in going into the future all such behaviors should be avoided at all cost. So this is although it sounds quite uh benign and uh it sounds

very generalized, it's actually farreaching. Yeah, because you can use this kind of a statement which has been signed by the four major heads of state to curb future things like you know this various

So you've got the four let let me get it again Egypt Egypt Turkey Qatar and the US yeah okay so this will this will can be used or they can be held to it to avoid you know uh future wrangles whereby again uh they pick on issues that have created created a lot of uh extremism, fanaticism and hatreds in the last decades in the Middle East. Basically issues relating to religion uh race and things like that. So uh that is significant in my in my view and uh because those who signed this uh this communicate and those who attended the Shahal Sheh summit they are in a way they obliged to uphold what

they have agreed upon. So this is also also to me a sort of a a backodor extension of the Abrahamic uh Abraimic Accords. Yeah. Because the Abrahamic Accords achieves exactly that.

Let's not stop stop bickering and fighting and things like that. Say may I may I jump in at this point and and and and put a uh put an underlining on this. Uh me and Chuang had a discussion uh in our I think two episodes ago where we were talking about the 20 point peace plan

from Trump and I called it I I called it basically a,500y old war that is being stopped by Trump you know because it goes beyond exactly what you're saying the extremism uh the religious emotionalism that is within that region that perpetuate this kind of uh hatred and uh this kind of animosity. So the fact that you've got um you've got Egypt which was the uh birthing place of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yes. Yeah. For our audiences who doesn't understand this in America or in Europe, the Muslim Brotherhood that was uh born in Egypt is is basically the mother of all snakes that we have had uh in the Muslim uh community uh across the world. Uh and then you have um you have Egypt uh sorry you have uh uh Turkey which basically um perpetuates the the the uh Muslim Brotherhood uh networking and then you have Qatar which basically is the home turf of safety for Hamas right so you've got these three players that has been whether uh gently pushed or forced by Trump to

comply, right? And the beauty of that photograph that we saw was not only were there Arab countries, basically you've got Muslim countries uh that has backed this up and including the Western European countries that come behind him. So I I felt that this is a a portrait or a a momentous historic time in terms of changing the geopolitical leadership that has been taken up by Trump and America for the first time in decades.

Okay, gentlemen, I want to raise the possibility of um I just want to of course first of all I want to say that um Trump is the is a master of optics. I mean he is really he's really a master of the media. Uh but beyond the hyperbole right I want to discuss the possibility the question which I think was raised by the is Israeli ambassador to the US Jail lighter who has said that Israel will not depart from Gaza without the full disarmament of Hamas and presumably other armed groups that are aligned to Hamas. Right. And no Israeli leader has actually promised the full

IDF withdrawal even if that condition is met. So if that were the case, beyond the optics, beyond the the positivity of all this, you know, at a headline level in terms of details on the ground, will there be a full demilitarization because both sides seem to be having this log jam ideologically speaking?

I let I think site that the the Shahali agreement is only phase one and correct there's two more to go, right? there there's two more to go but even that is not clear exactly how many parts there will be to it but the second phase is the the disarmament and demilitarization of Gaza and I think also that Hamas shall leave the scene completely uh I think they're already having some issues with the phase two the disarmament demilitarization because that is yet to be seen from what I have read uh there is they pretty much have the Hama still has substantial amount of arms with them and now it has

been uh quite a few days since the the shi accord and there is no indication that any disarmament or demilitarization is is going on on the ground inside Gaza. So uh that is going to be an issue. Uh even the release of the hostages the release of the dead bodies has now come to a it's sort of not moving because now Hamas has said that they don't have any more dead bodies. They according to some reports they have returned two dead bodies. Another one was returned but it they found out that it is not an Israeli uh body. It was actually an Arab uh body. So the

Israelis sent it back. So even the the return of the remaining 28 dead bodies I think is is sort of in a stuck now. It's not gone move beyond two as per the latest news I checked last night. So uh that is a we have a bit of a issue there. It's stuck there. So this disarmament and uh demilitarization of Gaza uh is yet to be seen. It's anybody's guess. It's anybody's guess.

And even beyond the disarmament, right, uh this whole issue of postwar security in Gaza uh which I think Gazans as well as Israelis want to have a stake in will supposedly be guaranteed by an international security force, this ISF, right? Comprised of troops from the region of course, right? So what will be the nature and scope of the ISF's authority? How exactly will the ISF enforce it? Especially if is if Israel resumes military operations, right? Does Israel even want such a force in Gaza where it has been a dominant external force power for decades? And and of

course unchecked by another state organization. So so these are these are the the minutia of the details which you know at a headline level are not really discussed because they they're a little bit further down the line, right? I think I think if you have any international peacekeeping force it it would not be a whole lot different than the uni field for example which was guarding the uh Israeli border with Lebanon and Malaysia has had a contingent has a contingent there it wouldn't be any more different from in terms of

it won't be a UN in terms of actual action on the ground operation on the ground it has to be about the same as peacekeeping maybe a bit more but then again this is very dubious because will they have police powers in Gaza this international peacekeeping force. Uh will they be authorized to shoot things like that? I think this is a very dicey situation, very dicey thing. My personal view is not going to happen. Uh my personal view is the Israelis have uh lost a lot of their soldiers, their people. There's been a war going on for two years. They've spent billions of US dollars in

this uh Gaza hostilities or Gaza war. I don't think they're just going to give up all that and allow some third force from a bunch of countries to come in especially when the names being suggested are like peacekeeping forces from Pakistan

and where will they devolve the authority from exactly so so I I I I think this is just maybe just to get the ball rolling and get everyone to attend the peace accords but I don't think that part is going to work out very well I it's going to be very difficult

I have a different point of view um I think that uh the implement I mean this is very much very much Trumpian in methodology if you ask me right he always comes in and it's just not him it's the way he leads his cabinet or his people that are involved in the areas that uh his cabinet is assigned to with a vision of how he wants to achieve certain things and visions are always very broad and not just very broad it doesn't have details in it just like what you mentioned with respect to all this peace plan even if you read the 20 piece 20 uh 20 point peace plan it's

actually very broad and it's uh relatively generalized it doesn't have specificity into it the way he goes about thing is that is a typical businessman way of doing things which is you set out your goal. You have a vision on how that goal looks like and then you get your people to set up. I'm going to make a certain prediction with respect to how I think it's going to come about. I pick it from what you are saying with respect to how they have carried it out before. Right? If you look at this, America doesn't want boots on the ground. Okay? that will be very much

against the uh American uh the MAGA ethos actually to have their people uh with boots on the ground right and I don't think Trump wants anymore um IDF on the ground either all right now however that is a big uh what is that dog called u the the the one that will bite your head pitbull. Is it

a pitbull? That is a pitbull he always have, you know, on a leash. So you either deal with Trump or you deal with that pitbull. Okay, that is one way he's going to he's going to handle it. And actually if you look at it, if you look at the people who have signed and the people who are going to fund, I can see the de redevelopment of uh of uh Gaza uh being funded from the GCC and the Saudis and the Qataris and the you know Omanis and and all these people. Okay? Because they had he's already hinted that they got money to burn.

Many people won't put good money after bad, right? I mean that's the truth of it. Yeah. But the truth is also this is something that they will do with the political power uh of the world.

So my question is right so so let me finish this right so I see that actually we will end up with uh troops coming in from these areas including and possibly Turkey and Egypt. All right. and actually coordinated from either Qatar because the US has a base in Qatar. Okay. Or uh uh but of out of or and and and supported by American uh advisers uh in Israel they've already committed like 200 personnel for this effort. America that's what Trump has mentioned. 200 personnel has already been committed for peacekeeping in this and they will dismantle Hamas. There's no two ways

about it. I am willing to bet my money on it because if you don't pull get kata demilit uh that zone demilitarized you will not have lasting peace and the only way you're going to do that is you've got all these people together now. Now what's the next step? This is where I see the next step is going to happen. All right. He one thing if you really look at all that Trump has done whether it is tariff whether it's uh how he has been negotiating with Ukraine or even with China he doesn't really tell you everything.

Can I just can I just Sure buddy. Uh I think uh the other thing is that uh I mean there's a lot of truth to what you're saying. Uh the larger goal the larger goal which Trump is trying to achieve here and I think the Israelis are also is with him is normalization with the Arab world. They're using this

y this event this October 7th uh attack which happened two years ago and now is coming to this conclusion and resolution. They are using this as a pivot point as a uh as a leverage to achieve the larger role of normalizing relations between Israel and the entire Middle East. That's why they keep talking about a lasting peace. So having said that uh Hamas has suffered uh tremendous losses physically on the ground personnel people uh some sources say that their strength has now is down to a fraction of what it was 2 years ago. So uh this this difficulty of disarming the remainder of what's left

of Hamas may not be as big a task as some people may think. like it is not really difficult especially now uh the Israelis took 80 over percent of uh Gaza now they have pulled back they they are over 50% they're holding it's a complete ring around Gaza and the the part of Gaza that is controlled by Hamas now where Hamas still is present is a very tight ring is getting smaller and smaller so with that kind of a physical control over the topography over the area it It's not very difficult uh to disarm and to uh to neutralize Hamas militarily. It's not really very difficult. Uh

hey bro, don't forget one thing. Yeah. Funding. Now they have already put a choke hole. Everything is cut off. There is no funding going in. Well, okay. So gentlemen, the different the difficulty with an ideological conflict is the fact that they these ideologies ideologies don't vanish. They don't evaporate overnight just because you got a new guy coming, right? So, so the the two sides, okay, so I just want to say this before I stop. Okay, the two sides have agreed to a ceasefire, right? But if Israel were to resume the war because it because it still remains a

tinder box, right? If Israel resumes the war, will Trump take the hard steps, right, and take the tough measures to stop IDF operations because historically they haven't, right? And I think Hamas doubts they will. He that he will.

No, I don't think he will. Uh I think at the end of the day uh uh the US has already said we will we will say what we want to say. We will set the the conditions deadlines. If they are not met then Israel is free to do what they have to do. Trump has repeated this a few times. Uh the clear-cut case is the bombing of Doha. Uh the bombing of Doha actually was done fully with the knowledge of the Americans. There's no way the Israelis could have bombed Doha without their knowledge. So Doha was bombed on September the 9th I think.

May I ask why do you say that the Israelis would not have bombed Doha without American uh because the air base is there? The Alud the largest American military base in the Middle East is in Doha.

Okay. So they bomb right next door outside the fence. I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure they would have informed them. But you see they bombed uh they struck Doha on the 9th of September, right? And within 30 days there was already an agreement to release the hostages. There was an understanding. So the what happened in uh in Shah Mash was just the closing bases.

So within 30 days of the bombing the 20 hostages were they came to an agreement. Yes, we will release them. So at the end of the day force speaks loudly. But the Israeli action in Doha was definitely done with American agreement and consent. otherwise would never have taken place because the Americans and the Israelis work together in Iran. They work hand in glove. So at the end of the day, Trump will not do anything which the Israelis find uh which they have to do. Trump will not uh stop them from doing what they say they have to do. When push comes to shove,

Trump will tell the Israelis, which he has. He said, "Okay, go ahead and do what you have to do." So, so this 20 point piece plan, this piece accord or this media statement remains fragile. No, it has got it's got steps. It got step one, step two, but there are many. I mean, it's like it's like a

my friend this this is the way I look at it, right? I actually want to give a poker. It's a poker ref. Of course, it is. It's it's a p it's like a poker game, right? You've got a turn cut which is basically coming to the river already, right? And what uh site has explained is that once that turn cut is open which is I bomb you you want to stay on and fight for the river or you want to fold. Okay, because I've just up the ent. Okay, now here's my way of looking at it and I don't know whether site agrees or not. Okay. I think this is the first time I've seen any US president have control over

uh the Israeli president to the extent that they have. I've never seen in my entire adult life this has happened. Now there is always a push and pull of that right. But with respect to how much Trump can actually put his who is his his uh his his knee on the head of a uh Israeli president. I've never seen this happen in my entire life.

You know you you can you can manipulate a a puppet to button your shirt. That's true too. That's true too. That's true too. I I my view is my view is is beyond is beyond

looking at the history of Israel, United States, even the West, United States especially, it is beyond their presidents and prime ministers. The linkages between the Israelis and the Americans go back I don't know what since before Israel was created. There are you have vested interests, you have interest groups, you have very powerful people in

some say that the Jews control the the business world. Well, I I don't want to go into the conspiracy thing, but there are real things on the ground. Financial interests, Wall Street, they all linked. So, you you okay, you can go down the conspiracy route, but the reality is they these people exist and they are business people. They are people who who have a lot of state at stake. So, uh they will they will act in their best interests.

Let's put it this way. I have to talk to you about uh the historical conflict if I may go a little bit about it. One one second. Yeah. Okay. I ain it like let's say our friendship. We we've known each other what 15 years.

A long time, right? Okay. So I consider you one of my best friends. Um so if you get into a fight with somebody else, okay, here's the thing about friendship and loyalty. Okay, I'll give you I'll give you the benefit of the doubt first. I can tell you that. But as a good friend, okay, if I have that leverage with you, which the previous president has zero leverage, okay, but I think I have the leverage with you that I say I'll pull your shoulder and say I say stop it. All right, that's the difference I see. So that's my point. Okay, go on on your thing.

You you you mentioned the uh you mentioned the Muslim Brotherhood just now. Yeah. And uh that's why you want to go in. Yeah. You mentioned the the historical thing. Uh I think this also has to be looked again carefully because you see there's something called what is really happening on the ground you know which the world doesn't know about.

Y for example you take this let's let's call it the Palestine conflict. Now there are uh four different Palestinian groups of of classification of Palestinians who are involved or Arabs. Now uh you have Gaza, right? Gaza. Gaza is different from Hamas. Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood. They are purely Muslim Brotherhood. They they uh they have they control Gaza. But you cannot deny that they they have force available to them. They have military force and that's why they control Gaza with the iron hand. You also have groups in Gaza who do not agree with Hamas or who may belong to

other factions. For example, the latest now that we are seeing are the clans, the Arab clans, because now they're trying to develop this Arab traditional Arab clans to be one possible future administrators of Gaza. They're falling back on the old the Mktar system. Mktar, Mktar means the leader where a clan has got a leader called a Mktar. So they want to have like, you know, one district may have a Mktar and they want to put this Mktar and his clan as the administrators of that part of Gaza. they they're going they're going that route because it is possible because

there are people Arabs in Gaza who may not agree with Hamas. Then you have West Bank. West Bank does not shoot missiles into Israel. They have they have they have given up on this military hostilities and West Bank is run by FATA PLO the old PLO

basically the old PL Abbas they have decided that to go on a non-confrontational non-military uh what do you call this non-confrontational attitude against Israel that's that's the number two uh number three actually because I've already mentioned Hamas and the non Hamas Arabs in Gaza you have West Bank you also have 20% % of Israel which are Palestinian Arab. Uh if you remove if you if you ignore the the oil exporting Arab countries, the highest per capita earning Arabs in the Middle East are the Arabs living inside Israel.

The the Israeli Arabs, they the highest per capita GDP minus the oil oil country. Of course, you cannot compare with Qatar and Kuwait. And many people don't do not know like 20 to 25% of the Israeli medical services doctors, nurses and pharmacists are Arabs, Palestinian Arabs. They somehow they like this medical industry very well and they sort of uh they are they have a very large presence. When a Israeli soldier gets shot in the in the battlefield, they rush him to hospital. The doctor treating him most likely be a Palestinian Arab doctor, an Israeli or a

ArabIsraeli nurse. So you have these uh at least four different groups. Our people here, our Muslim community must be calling them Zionist. So you see there there is there's a diversity there's a diversity uh among the the Palestinian Arabs in that part of the world. They're not it's not homogeneous.

It's not homogeneous. And and for a long time Hamas in Gaza when they see the fata from West Bank, it's shoot on site. It's been there for a long time. They just they just don't like each other. Can I if I may if I may completely so but but unfortunately what we read in the media on CNN in the news in BBC is you see the Hamas is occupying the the front page your main screen on your evening news on the TV that as though the as though the entire Middle East uh problem conflict boils down to Hamas and Israel. No, it does not. Uh this is a tiny portion of the conflict. There is

no problem. I mean there's no military conflict between the West Bank and Israel. Over 2 million Palestinians. There's no conflict between the the Arabs who live inside Israel and those uh and the Israelis. They they live quite peacefully. It it has it has it has a huge significance because at the ground level if you are in that part of the world uh your well-being your economic well-being uh your wealth your future your education your children's well-being all depends on where you are physically located

and why where you're physically located is is uh in Hamas in Gaza Hamas it is it become a sign a very significant conflict. It was dragging for a long time because of the influence of external actors in Gaza in Hamas which is what you mentioned just now. The Muslim Brotherhood the Muslim Brotherhood comes from Egypt, their Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. They have their ideas of Islamic caliphate and you know world caliphate and all that which they think uh uh they think that the struggle over this you know the al axa mosque and all that in Jerusalem they have used they have pinned their their

their efforts in the Middle East to the so-called liberation of this the the holy land the Alaka mosque and all that uh and of course they are using Hamas as their well Hamas is their chapter their chap not proxy itself their chapter it is a chapter it is not a proxy it is actually a chapter of uh Muslim

brother plenty of their chapters around the world so that is what they are doing so the so their struggle is also the Muslim Brotherhood's own agenda is now involved in Gaza let let me at this point so if to to complete my point excuse me so you the the the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be projected to the rest of Palestine because the rest of Palestine theel elves may not agree fully with what is going on which is why you see there's so much resistance between Hamas and West Bank and Fata let let me I just want to one thing first

u you know we've just touched that uh there is nonhomogeneity in terms of the tribalism itself right we've seen a we've seen the head of the snake is actually the Muslim Brotherhood okay and all these chapters that are causing a lot of problem in almost every Muslim country. Uh any chapters that you can uh you can associate with the Muslim Brotherhood from either political or military standpoint, cut their bloody head off. Okay? And then you know I think this is the thing that I want to tell our audience especially our our I mean most of our audience are

western audiences right CNN doesn't talk all these intricacies they don't have an a cintella of understanding of the region or the culture and that's why you come here to listen to this kind of thing from our guys here guy g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g gang. All right. Now I'm going to say this with respect to um with respect to why I I I heard a very interesting perspective from a few uh Saudi people. I have business in Saudi. Okay. Do you know that the Saudis doesn't even consider the Palestinians as Arabs? For them, the Palestinians are like gypsies.

Okay. You are laughing already because you know exactly what I'm talking about. All right. Okay. All right. No, they look at it and that is exactly the reason why the Egyptians put a a a border that is even worse than what the Israelis have put. Okay? Because they don't want the Palestinians to come anywhere near their land. Okay? They view the Palestinians are actually monger. Okay? For you idiots who doesn't seem to understand this reality, please understand this realities. The Arabs doesn't consider the Palestinians as one of them. All right.

Well, I think I think I can wash out my mouth with this with a lististering now. Okay. Okay. So, so what does that mean? And and and not just that, they I I they've even told me, right? They've even told me, "You guy, you Palestinians, we want peace with Israel. These are the Arabs telling telling me."

No, regardless if I may, if I may in regardless, I mean, at the end of the day, uh they're all people. They're all human beings. Everybody has a right to exist. Everybody has a right to their future. What has messed up the situation is uh it's a bit long and complicated. It's a bit long, but it's not too complicated. It is actually quite simple. uh you see after even before the creation of Israel the Middle East the Arab countries have always had this problem of legitimacy because there's no democracy in a democratic country like our country Malaysia US the west you

have every four years five years you have elections the people at the end of it also we don't we at least we have a choice people vote and once the leader the prime minister the president has been uh elected he has the he has the force of law behind him. Nobody can question for 5 years or 4 years. He is the leader. You cannot change that.

Hey, not only that buddy, not only that, our military has never been political as far as because we we are we have followed the constitution. We are we obey the law. But in the Middle East, you have never had democracy for I don't know when. There's no democracy in the Middle East. Even those those democ like Tunisia and all this, they are just in name. It's debatable. But they have never had a democratic governance. So they always when you when a leader or a government is not a democratic democratically elected then they have to constantly they have to justify their presence to the people

because they're not legitimate. So they look for causes. If there's an earthquake, oh fantastic. They can send the ambulances and look good, bring in the cameras, you know, to show that, okay, we are here, we are doing, we we are doing our job, you know, we we have earned your your trust. Uh so, okay, there's no the earthquakes don't happen every day. Uh okay, let's create enemies.

We can create wars. Let's create wars and enemies. That gives you legitimacy easier. The these people are out to destroy us. They out to take away our land. This that blah blah blah. We'll fight for you. And the biggest corn game of all is religion. You know, they're attacking our religion. We will defend your faith for you. You must support us.

We will take back the the holy land. Democracy elections are that we can discuss later. But now we are under threat. Our religion is under threat. We will save the religion for you. We are fighting for our religion. So this is going on in the Middle East since ages. So the big problem in the Middle East is there is no democracy. So, so the all the Arab regimes need something to fight for to prove their worth to their people who did not elect them. So, as long as there is no democracy in the Middle East, earthquakes, fires, wars, religious threats, who will be number one on their

horizon, number one. Because it gives them an excuse to show that I deserve to be your leader because I'm going to save you against I'm your champion. Yeah. So, tsunamis, earthquakes, religious hatreds, wars. Bring it on. They will take it.

Yeah. Damn. I tell you what, you hit the point on that one because that's it. That because you do not have you do not have to prove yourself to the people at democratic elections. There's no voting. Sounds a lot like a country. I know you know.

So, this is what is going on in the Middle East. So, so it complicates historically. I want to finish. Historically, historically, the Jews in history going back 1,500 years, which you mentioned earlier,

the Jews have not had much problem with the Muslims. The Jews always did very well, their Jewish civilization under the Muslims. The people who went uh hammer, nail, what? Hammer and nail and tooth tooth and nail against the the Jews were the Christians. The Christians persecuted uh Jews throughout history. We all know that. So, uh, Jews have had more problems with the Christians throughout history and much less almost none with the Muslims. But what is going on now over this piece of land is a recent is a recent and it is complicated by what I just described in the Middle East there

is no democracy. Yeah. Because now you have uh so-cal I mean previously during that era where there was peace uh I mean where there were more Jews and now why there are no practically no Jews in the Arab lands is because after World War I especially and then World War II in Hanset the states of uh that was created by the allies that won the uh the world wars you know had lead had had had had leaders or political leaders that really had no legitimacy and they had to keep that legitimacy and find a uh uh a foil for them to be legitimate. I think you just described that perfectly.

When when you are an autocrat uh you're autocrat, you're a dictator and all that you need you need a cause. Yeah. You need some excuse to tell the people who are who are getting tired of you, who are tired of you

to keep telling them that I deserve to be your president. I deserve to be your leader for life because I'm protecting you, saving you, saving our fighting for our religion. I'm going to liberate the holy land. You know, you know, one thing, you know, you know, one thing I I want to I want to put a put a nail on this and then shall we move back to the what can happen with respect to the uh treaty to the peace treaty itself, right? I mean I saw the GDP numbers they I think Wall Street Journal or or uh or one of the mainstream outlet came out uh describing after October 7th

uh how the GDP in the in Gaza and West Bank came down especially Gaza GDP numbers which was growing. All right. Um and also the population number which was growing. So when these people were talking about they've been under occupation, they've been leaving their land and they could have keep on living peacefully and work out a solution whilst doing that and they were growing in wealth until Hamas decided as I had quoted the Hamas leader saying we have waited 77 years to carry out this October 7 so that we can make the Jews I paraphrase look like you know the the the the devil that they

are. So they were willing they outwardly say no I think that language is uh from the Muslim Brotherhood. It is it is not from Gaza. It is not from Palestine. You see Palestine that whole region and they call it the French call it the Levant, isn't it? From Syria, southern Turkey, Syria, Lebanon all the way into Egypt and Alexandria. That area is called the Levant. Throughout history, it has been a a really uh uh cultural uh melting pot. You have you have the the Arabs, you have the Greeks, you had Romans, you had the Kurdish people, uh you had all sorts of mixes of

North Africans, they all mingled in that area and is a is a really uh a center of commerce and trade throughout history. Yeah. Alexandria. Uh and that goes to the point where actually the biggest political uh hedgeimony in that area that has poisoned all these and used by all these political leader is the Muslim Brotherhood ideology.

Yeah. Because when left alone to themselves, remember how Beirut used to be called the Paris of the east, they are very good at that. They they really good at building beautiful cities and roads and buildings. They like to make things look nice. So today, if you go to the West Bank, the West Bank, which is ruled by Palestinian Authority, which has been at peace with Israel since the 1978 King, what Cam David Accords and all that, uh the the cities and towns in uh the West Bank, I think uh Jericho and Janine and all these kind of places, they look like little European towns,

you know, very welllaid out and uh very neat. people live in quite good surroundings, you know, and they they they have nice buildings and all that which was also present in uh in Gaza before this war.

So because they have a very long history that's the civilization, the culture and the traditions in that part of the Levant goes back thousands of years. They are a people who are accustomed to trade, business, you know, and creating wealth. They know what to do. So if left alone to themselves, I think they will achieve a very high standard of living. They will they will live very well and and you know like anybody else you know just keep moving on in life. But when this external ideologies and influences come in like for example the the Islamic caliphate thing, right? The Muslim

that's the Muslim Brotherhood comes from Egypt. It's not it's not it is not Gaza that is Egypt. Yeah, they have their own they have their own ideas what they wanted to do in Egypt. As you as you mentioned earlier, the Muslim Brotherhood started in Egypt in the 1920s.

Yeah. And then it got sterized by revolution. It was a local game that got clobbered and hammered in their in their local playing fields, you know, in Egypt. Then they branched out. Now they're all over the world. But nevertheless, it is an ideology that comes from Egypt. Does it well obviously does not fit into Gaza because of all the fighting and the destruction that is going on. So uh it is if the people there are left alone to themselves I think they will find their own level. They will find their own progress

but there's this external influences that doesn't doesn't tell you. So do you gentlemen think that this is going to happen? I mean fought with different. Now I think uh what Donald Trump has done with this Shah Al meeting is that he has to me now for the first time or in a very long time an American president is using he realizes the might and the power of the United States military economic political power and uh not to fight wars but to stop fighting. So now there's even mention that he could be this is you know this is such an alien concept right but there's this

discussion of him being probably nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. I don't think that is his main priority to become I I don't I don't think I don't think Trump gives a about he doesn't give a he doesn't but what I'm trying to say in the context of of him engendering world peace.

Now the discussion now is if he if he does this in the Middle East can he make the same thing happen in the Ukraine as well? I think he does right. Yeah, cuz he's trying to do that as well. I just saw his post on social Afghanistan.

All right. No, the thing is the thing is very simple. Okay. He's talking about having just gotten off the phone with I don't know how much uh how much uh Modi is going to uh uh uh uh is is really on board with not buying uh Russian oil, right? But basically the two biggest uh uh buyers of Russian and Chinese oil is India uh and uh uh uh is is is India and China.

Okay. Russian oil. Russian oil and also Iranian oil. Okay. And I've said it all along. So I think one thing Trump is very good at, not just very good at is something that he has recognized that the economic power of America to do things and get people to actually uh you know um uh uh cry uncle is uh using the leverage of e Americans economic power.

There is a there is a Muslim brotherhood in Europe. It is called NATO and the EU. They are the ones. Hey, repeat that again. Repeat that again. I've never heard that. They are the ones.

I've never heard that. So, can can I can I repeat that? So, there is a Muslim Brotherhood in Europe called NATO and the European Union. The European Union. Why is that? They are the ones who are egging this war, Ukrainian war without

pushing the boundaries and Yeah. without bringing it to a to a halt. Okay. It's a war, right? It's a fight going on between Russia and Ukraine. Do you seriously think Putin will say, "hm, okay, I'll just pull back all my troops and we'll go back to Russia." Is does anyone seriously believe that's going to happen? Come to your senses. It's a nuclear power.

Can the Can the Ukrainians take back all the territory that has been gained by Russia? I doubt it. So, come to your senses. That's what Trump is saying. Putin says if they speak Russian, it belongs to Russia. Simple. the four the four uh regions in Ukraine, eastern Ukraine, the Russian speaking regions, the majority Russian speaking regions, Putin says this will remain with me and Crimea because traditionally we know in Russia the rest the parts where they speak Ukraine belongs to you. Simple as that. So there has to be some kind of a resolution along that line. And I think if

everybody encourages the Ukrainian people, especially Zalinski, they may be they may tend to come to some kind of agreement. But no, that's not happening because there's a Muslim Brotherhood in Europe, NATO and the EU which is adamantly opposed to any kind of settlement until now.

No, it's the Muslim Brotherhood of the old neocon and when I use the word when I use the word Muslim Brotherhood an ideological overlord.

Correct. Someone who's pushing their ideology into Ukraine and they're stuck in the his in the post world war mentality. So Britain for example fought Russia in the Crimean War. Don't forget Britain and Russia have fought wars. Remember the white the the white Russian army during the revolution 1917. The western fell sent their soldiers into into Russia to fight the Bolsheviks. The the British were always at the head of the column. So these fights have been going on.

Did you see how Trump summer during that that meeting? Yes, I did. The great game has been going on for a long time. So you have all these different external motivations, forces, ideologies coming in which mess up a Gaza, which mess up a Ukraine. This is a problem. Now you have to remove these external actors. Remove the Muslim brotherhoods from Europe, from Ukraine, from Gaza. Let the people sort their own problems. Yes, somebody aggress, somebody got hit, somebody got victimized. But you have to bring to an bring it to an end. There must be discussion. Some kind of thing has to be

worked out. It's not for me to say. It's not for you to say, it's for them to say. You know, I have going back to the uh to the to the uh Palestinian peace plan. I my my my prediction is there will not be a Palestinian state. I don't think it will be called a Palestinian state. There will be a name, but the name will the name Palestine will not exist. I'm putting my money on that. Okay. Number one. Number two, that doesn't matter because what they want to create is actually a peaceful place and they're going to split the uh Gaza and West Bank as two different entity.

Okay. You see, I mean people, we we've mentioned this before 1994. Yeah. Yasir Arafat became president of the Palestine, right? Well, Palestinian Authority is on the letter head, but on the ground is called Palestine. It was made up of Gaza and the West Bank. Mhm.

Yasir Arafat was president for 10 years. For 10 years, it was a Palestinian state for all intents and purposes. Yeah. They were they already had a Palestinian state. They had their own passports and stuff. The only thing was that I think external affairs and defense, the Israelis wanted the big say because they were

But they don't trust them. They don't trust. But it it was it it was up to them. If the Palestinians at that time, Yasir Rafa, they had just continued and developed while they killed him though and lived in peace and just kept moving on ahead. It would have evolved into a full-fledged Palestinian state. Yasir Arafat was a full-fledged president of Palestine because he had a membership in the United Nations. He was given all the respect, regard. But after he died, now you have two countries in Palestine. One is called Gaza under Hamas and the other one is West Bank. Totally different countries.

They're not the same anymore. One is led by Mahmud Abbas, a single person who was elected a long time ago. The other one is is uh led by a terrorist group.

Well, a a group an organization. Yeah. terrorist terrorist group from from one from one state a Palestinian state with one president Yasir Arafad now you have two countries or two administrations

uh so uh I I really don't know what the argument is about for 10 years there was no issue of will the Palestinians get their state or not because Yaser Arafat was president of Gaza both Gaza and West Bank and they functioned exactly like a state

well I I think except they didn't have an air force and an army I mean if you think about it right if you think about it what my model would be is actually you know likenstein Monaco they don't have uh they don't have armies okay you know and they are rich as hell they are on the Riviera right dude that's the model for you

they may not have the slers there though no no no but they used to have sters too you go back to uh the the pane uh uh prior to World War I, right? You know, but in this case, if you ask me, if I want to see and I I want and if I think I'm trying to put myself, tell me if I'm wrong. I'm I'm trying to put myself in the guys who are going to fund. You ask that question because at the end of the day, the funders are the one who's going to put the money in and make sure things happen, right?

And they want returns. Okay. The Saudis going to put the money. I think the GCC's are going to put the money. The Qataris are going to put money, okay? Cuz they're going to be forced to put money. Okay? So, in order for them to get their returns, I say, I want these two as subsidiaries, okay? You guys want to live happily ever after. All right, there you go. You don't, you know, and they're going to impose it on them because because say this is what shocked me culturally when I was talking to my Saudi contacts, right? and and Abu Dhabi and in Abu Dhabi. Okay.

They really they I mean irrespective as I said how they view uh the Palestinians and why they don't want the Palestinians in their country is very clear is the same way Europe doesn't want gypsies in their country. Okay.

Well, the Saudis have an air of arrogance about them anyway. Right. Not just the Saudis. Always have been. No, not just the Saudis. Junk. not just the Saudis. So we got to live with with this one. You got to earn the respect of your fellow men, right? If they are Palestinians, as site rightly put can be respected doctors that actually um and nurses that that men after the IDF soldiers. You can do the same in West Bank. You can do the same in in Gaza. And it's it's not that big. It's a small piece of land. It's tiny. Yeah.

To me, if you ask me, it's the people are more important. At the end of the day, it's the people who live there, the human beings. What is their future going to be? Yeah. 1948, 1948 to 1967, 19 years.

Gaza was under Egyptian administration and the West Bank was under Jordanian administration. Everything was fine. Yeah, if you ask me today looking forward you know the the West Bank it is under Palestinian authority that they have their own Mahmud Abbas the Palestinian Authority and all that but they can they can integrate economically with Jordan. It's right next door.

Yeah. And the same way Gaza can integrate economically with Egypt. You you were part of Egypt and just take it from there. Just prosper, trade, do everything and just keep moving forward. Bro, look look look at Singapore. They have nothing. Okay. And what do they integrate their economy to?

And then they should they should they should earn each other's trust so that there is complete freedom of movement trade between let's say West Bank and Jordan which they have but they can they can build build up more

but you got to demilitarize and same with and same with Gaza and Egypt right as you say it now between Egypt and Gaza. The Egyptians have built a wall I think it's like 40 ft high. Yeah, it makes double wall it makes wall tra on top of the 40 ft or something. And they've got mines and machine gun towers and things like like you know what we would see in the stalls or the German prisoner of war camps in World War II. That's how they maintain.

It shows the amount of distrust between Arabs and Arabs, you know. Yeah. So I think that is a major failure of of civilization. It's not just that a major failure. It's also a major failure of the Muslim community globally to understand the place.

Yes. If they can uh build trust among themselves and remove all these barriers, the people will prosper, the children can go to school, they can become doctors, they can set up businesses.

Go for holiday. Amen. That's it. Beautiful. Just move forward. But this endless conflict over ideology, you know, like they want to liberate the the the Al Axa mosque. The Al Axa Mosque has never missed

Get me there. has never missed a single prayer since it was built 1,400 years ago. They still pray five times a day. They have never missed a single Friday prayer. They still pray every Friday. People go there by the thousands to pray Friday prayers. It's never missed.

No, there's a genocide over there. What are you talking about? Anybody, every Muslim from that area can go and pray. It's just a mosque. So you going to liberate it. Once you liberate it, are you going to pray five 10 times a day? I mean, what what are you talking about?

I can tell you what will happen once you liberate it. Nobody's going to go to the mosque. So you see these are so these are but but but then you have these other creatures they call the politician. So they come in and they are the ones who want to liberate it. See they want to liberate.

Yeah. because they have no other like as though people are not allowed to pray five times a day like as though there's no uh Friday prayers sometimes there are skirmishes there are riot somebody gets up on a Friday and waves a banner or something then the police will come and drag them away then that will become world news in the Arab capitals through Al Jazz today Friday prayer was something like that it becomes a big issue

and and you and you have Hamas doing their uh Hollywood version of videos that go worldwide on Tik Tok you and and the and the management of the Alaka mosque has always been under the king of Jordan.

Yeah. From from ancient historical times, the Hashimite people have have managed the wakov of the Alaka mosque. The the Israelis don't get involved. You you decide and and they give money. The Israelis provide funds for renovations and things like that. But most of that funds comes from the Arab countries and from Jordan. Bottom line is okay you want to liberate it and then what

like a mosque a mosque is for prayers and the prayers have not stopped since Islam was founded since that that since that mosque was built you know what in uh 691 or 750 AD or something I can't remember

a Saudi guy just a Saudi guy told me right that you know uh if you want to talk about alakaw okay it's actually not in Jerusalem it's in Saudi Okay. So there are also theological issues.

I'm let's deal let's deal with the moss that we have today that that is complicating things even more. I know I know I know I know I know I know let's deal with today you know I know so a lot of these things. So a lot of these things they are just the politicians and the interested groups the the what you mentioned as the the terrorist organizations they have their own agendas. Yeah. And unfortunately their voices these very misinformed and malignant voices. These are the voices you hear in the world's media every day. You don't hear the the the other side of

you don't hear people like us our point of view in the in the mainstream media at all. You know because why we are always talking about reality from what we know of all this from our own understanding of this culture. They are just listening to propagandist you know. So this is why you come here to listen to this you know. Anyway, uh say

yeah. Um I I just one thing before we move to um I think I want to move to Afghanistan actually another sneak peek, you know. Um uh the I you know I it it find I I find it very strange because why um I've never really been a Republican bad person uh from the days of college. Let's say that like that since both of us were educated in America, right? So we we we sort of ideologically have some, you know, influence there when we were in school, our friendships, but I had friends on both sides.

We like pumpkin pie. Hey, there you go. I like my I like my eggs and steak. Okay. So um the thing is I don't I I I the thing is I have found myself to be moving more towards or more that actually the left has has gone off the deep end in my opinion and actually if I were to I I I were to sit with my buddies today they say I'm right wing which boggles my mind as a liberal in Malaysia you know but I think one thing that uh and this is my problem is there the the the the hatred for Donald Trump in the mainstream media has just clouded all objective judgment and what

he's done here is actually to me momentous. I never believe I mean considering all that we have put down right in terms of the ideological the legitimacy of politics and all that it is almost insurmountable

it's it's money it's uh you know you know you know you know the in Europe now I was reading something over 100 billion 130 over billion euros worth of bonds have been issued in Europe by the various governments because they need money to fund to fund the uh the weapons that they're supplying to Ukraine,

right? Hundreds of billions of euros, you know, of bonds have been issued. This is big money. Somebody the making money. The banks are involved. You need the under bond underwriters. You need the bond underwriters. You need the funders.

Brussels need their pushy places. Interest earned assuming assuming okay let's give them a good rate. Let's say about what 5% on their bonds on say 100 100 billion that's five billion a year on the interest alone. What about the the the bond underwriting? So you have a bunch of bankers there who are happy with this war. Then that money is used to buy the weapons. So you have a bunch of weapons manufacturers who are happy with this war of course

and then you have the logistics providers. You have those people who transport things around. Uh you have the caterers, the advertising, they all make money. There's it's billions and billions of billions. Hundreds of billions.

We we sound like Carl Sean. So So So, so imagine if this war was not there in Europe. You have to generate some other business. Here's the thing. Worth hundreds of billions of euro. You have to work your tail off. No, I I think I think this is where Trump comes in and sees the world differently. I've said this in the last part that I did with Chang. I said, "Throw away everything that you know before Trump because the world is going to be according to Trump for the next 15 years at least because I don't see anybody that can overtake JD van." So, a lot of a lot of people, a lot of

bankers, weapons manufacturers, industrialists are going to lose their Christmas bonuses, so to speak. Good. Good. Good for them. If if Donald Trump is Wall Street, if Donald Trump's uh peace crusade uh comes through, you know, if he puts an end to this conflict in Gaza, in Ukraine, uh a lot of people are going to lose their Christmas bonuses. Y

so that is why there is so much uh hatred in and they still buy in Western Europe is still buying Russian fuel. What a dumbass thing. The hypocrisy the hypocrisy of it. Right.

So all the previous presidents they were war mongers. Even Obama Obama is the president who began the bombing of Pakistan. People don't know this. He's the first American president who bombed Pakistan. Their closest ally. Of course, he was bombing the bad guys, but nevertheless, he's bombed Pakistan hundreds of times. So, this is a guy who promoted

and he got the no and he get the Nobel Prize. Libya, remember Libya, the US ambassador was killed because they messed up their whatever strategy they had in Libya. So, Trump is the exact opposite. Let's put a stop to

Not just that, I think he's dismantling him and his team is dismantling the deep state. dismantling the old neocon establishment, dismantling the globalist agenda, dismantling in fact to me this he should dismantle the WTO he should even know the last time you were here what did you say about UN is bloody useless. I was listening to Mike Novagratz yesterday on YouTube. Mike Noratz is the is the galaxy CEO and he actually attended the Trump inauguration uh November last year. He was talking to Scott Bass. Scott Descent is an ex-h fund manager. Scott Bassan told Mike

Novograds that we're going to go so hard and so fast in such a short space of time that the world will be reeling with the changes and reforms and that's exactly what's happened and you know we're caught in this mastrom of change but we're going to come out on the other side of it. I think all the better for it.

I I think we all going to be the better for it. And if you think I'm going to just slide in something before because I know site want to talk about Afghanistan. Sorry about that buddy. You know, I just want to say this from a businessman standpoint. Okay, we in Malaysia, hey Bura, hey Bang Nagara, hey cabinet, listen up. Okay, the world is changing in about 5 minutes. Whatever you're doing now is useless. Look at what America is doing, what Trump is doing. Pivot. Pivot now.

Okay. Two. Pivot now. understand what he's doing. Okay, your ESG renewable scam is done. Okay, he's buried 6 ft under. Please put capital allocation and funding into where actually that is going to make Malaysians rich and make Malaysia great again. Can you please do that? Jackasses. Okay,

so anyway, can we go to I think I think we should talk about that since he mentioned Pakistan. So Pakistan allow the bombing of Pakistan by Obama. You know what the hell is going on is Pakistan and Afghanistan. Those two those two countries has all

Pakistan allowed the wolf among its chickens, isn't it? They they allowed Yeah. What Clinton said, you cannot release snakes in your neighbors. That's exactly what they did four years ago.

And then expect that those same snakes may not slip back into your house. They put the Taliban into the country and allowed them to exist there. And what is going on now? I I want to hear I I I don't know this uh this this uh this this development apart from hearing that you know from from sites block that somehow they have left their trousers you know so say can you please illuminate our viewers? Well, the the conflict now Afghanistan and Pakistan the the center of gravity or rather the uh yeah the center of gravity is more on the Pakistani side that's where a lot of

the issues come from emanate from Pakistan side Afghanistan they have gone through tremendous upheavalss and confusion and uh no direction for the last about 40 years or so. But since 2021 when Taliban 2.0 took over uh quite surprisingly they are doing quite an okay job of managing their economy. Uh Afghanistan Kabul is doing economically they they are doing well. Their people uh there's no starvation. People are going on with their work their whatever things that they do. It's mostly an agricultural society. They're big into animal raring. They eat very well.

Are they still very good into biryani? Are they still breeding kids uh or grooming kids? Uh they have their habits I suppose. I do not know. But but as a as a economy, as a country, they are getting along quite well. uh the things that we don't agree for example I don't agree is their religious tilt and their treatment of women and uh girls and all those things that you are mentioning about

and boys those things are still there but the country as a whole is much more settled down now than before there's actually tourism going into Afghanistan before there was nothing beautiful place

yeah there's tourism did you go there when you were I was in the same region yeah it's beautiful gorgeous There's tourism. Western people go to Afghanistan now and you can walk about the place and you can visit places. You're welcome. They they don't look at you as you are an enemy or whatever. Things have changed. So again, if left alone to themselves, they will mind their own business. They will rare their camels and goats and build their buildings and

yeah, they need those goats. And uh they Kabul is coming up very well now. You know, it's a nice place. New buildings are coming up. Things like that. They will they will find their level. But the complication started with um Pakistan. In my view, Pakistan has got a Pakistan has got major systemic and structural issues which uh is extremely hard for them to overcome

military corruption. Uh uh you see out of Pakistan's 200 more than 220 million people population some say up to 240. That's a lot. We do not know the exact census. Huh. About 40 million of them are Pashon people. Mhm. This pashons are the ones who live in Afghanistan who who who run Afghanistan. Afghanistan is run by the rule by the Pashon people. So 40 million Pashons in Pakistan who live along this imaginary line called a Duran line. The border which was just a a line drawn with a pencil on a map by the British about a couple hundred years ago. It cut right through the pashon

areas. So they put 40 million pashons in Pakistan and they put 20 million pons in Afghanistan. Now Afghanistan has got a population of 40 million of which only half are pun that 20 million. So the majority of Pashons live in Pakistan. So the Pashon homeland is Pakistan. It's not really Afghanistan. Do you see the problem here? So there are 40 million pashons in Afghanistan versus 20 million pashons in Afghan in Pakistan versus 20 million in Afghanistan. Now the the other half of Afghanistan are the Tajiks, the Hazaras and the Usuzbcks. So in Afghanistan the

Pashons feel threatened because they are 50/50 with the non-pun. Basically you're saying that in terms of tribes Pashtun actually has the single largest block

in Afghanistan. In Pakistan no in Afghanistan. In Pakistan they are 40 million. They remain the largest block are the Punjabis. There are 70 million. Okay. So the pashons for their long-term security and whatever you know they would like the 20 million pashons in Afghanistan to merge back with the 40 million pashons in in Pakistan which is what it was before the British came there and messed things up. So then they'll have a single block of about 60 million pashon people in an Afghanistan where now the Tajik and Hazaras will become really small minority.

So what what has happened then actually? So now because of the duran line it puts 40 million pons in Pakistan. The pashons of course they have their own language, they have their own history, they have their own culture. They don't really fit in fully well with the rest of uh well not all of Pakistan. Some parts of Pakistan uh a lot of people in Pakistan don't get along as well as they should with each other. Especially with this group called the Punjabis who are the dominant group in Pakistan. They have the best looking girls.

They they control the economy. They just be honest. They control the uh government and they control the army. So you find that the Pashon people they refer to the Pakistani government like it is an alien uh entity. They call it the Punjabi Punjabi Muslim Pakistan Army or something like that. Punjabi Muslim Pakistan Army. They they they blame it entirely on the Punjabis who dominate issue who dominate things in Pakistan. Okay. The same the same with the Baluch.

So how did this started? The same with the Baluch people. The Baluchistan which is part of Pakistan. They also don't fit in. They don't like the Punjabi dominance in affairs. So what has made things even more uh uh what has made things more complicated is that it's a country. Pakistan is a country. You have to develop it. You have to somebody has to go and dig go into Baluchistan and mine the whatever they have under the ground whether it is gold uranium coal whatever alum aluminium magnesium whatever somebody has to go and mine it so the people who are organized and who have all the

resources going for them are Punjabis the Punjabis so they go they have to go and do it of course the baluji people don't like the same thing in Pashtunistan in in Pakun kibber paktuna where the people are basically tribal they've been living a tribal life for a long time then you find that from the center Islamabad they try to organize things put in laws regulations and all the usual stuff that you know you would do as a country there's clashes and then you have the pull factor from the other side across the Duran line in Afghanistan where the pashons they have already have their own

country it's called Afghanistan they would like their cousins and the brothers to team up to merge along they they see the border the Duran line as as a natural border no it is it is a fake border it is uh not It is just a line drawn by the British because they have

so actually sparked this. So then you have this uh uh in Pakistan you have various militant groups there's plenty of them. So in uh in uh Kyber Paktuna which is a northern part of uh Pakistan populated by Poshunes they have this outfit called the TTP the Tahiki Taliban Pakistan which is actually the local branch of the Taliban in uh Afghanistan and these people have an ideology to on top of their pashon identity that ideology is called Islam it's a religion okay so they have they all want to create their caliphate and Islamic emirates and things like that.

This is part of the Islamic Brotherhood snake. No. Uh no this is their own this is their own ideology. So this is their own snake. They have the same ideology as the Taliban in uh in Afghanistan. All right. So they all want to create you know Sharia and and Islamic Emirate and things like that.

So that puts puts them at loggerheads with whoever is in power in Pakistan. Forget about the Punjabis because you won't agree. You see, so all there so many of these pulled and pushed factors going on inside Pakistan. The the racial differences, the the language, the dialect, language differences, completely different histories. The Baluch don't fit into Pakistan.

So So I mean go back to to this issue, right? And then for example, Baluch all their resources they say that the Punjabis are coming in extracting their resources. Someone has to do it. If the Baluch can't do it on themselves, somebody else has to do it. It's not fair to say such things the baluch will not agree. Yeah. So there are some other states in our country also won't agree

that these are these are the humongous number of push and pull factors stress factors tectonic. So what was the stress of that of that war? Well there is a there has been there has been a long longunning uh

skirmishes skirmishes and terror campaign going on between the TTP the the Taliban Pakistan fighting the Pakistani army. You know, like we had our insurgency here and things like that. It's been going on for a long time. But for some weird reason, I really This one I can't understand. The Pakistanis bombed Kabul.

Really? Yeah. Recently they bombed Kabul. They said it was a surgical strike, decapitation strike to take out the leader of the TTP Pakistan who was hiding

Masudi Masud who was hiding or living in Kabul in a house. So the Pakistanis wanted to do a surgical strike like what? Oh, they think they are Israel. Israel in Doha. In Doha and all that, man.

They sent Oh my god. They sent their jet planes and they bombed but they didn't bomb just one spot. They bombed a few places in Kabul. So they used what the the Americans F16 to uh I think it was Chinese J17. But uh they bombed a few places and they thought they killed this fell. But the news is he has not been killed. And uh the Indian news media says on the night of the bombing this guy Masud

Wali Masud was actually in Pakistan but his son uh died. His son was in Kabul. Okay. That's I mean this is what we hear. This news is

you can be you can you can debate it. You can disagree with it because we really do not know what exactly what happened on the ground. Yeah, but uh that was a strike that they decapitation strike like that Doha strike

but the Doha strike was purposely missed in my opinion. Well, they haven't been seen again those five people. No, no, they they they so after this strike the of course the Afghan police they got pissed because you strike the capital of the country.

Yeah. So they have retaliated. They they fired artillery and and it's still going on. A 48 hour ceasefire has been agreed on but it's sort of quite loose. There's still shooting going on but I think this will taper off for the time being but in the long run this problem is not solved yet. I I think Pakistan is in for a very rough ride.

Let me ask you a question then. Can we pivot a bit? So I I've got a background on that but um actually I still don't understand why does India and Pakistan keep having their mini wars or skirmishes. I mean you've already got your independence for a long time especially Pakistan you're a small dinky fellow you know why does that happen

again it goes back to what I said earlier there are no democracies in the Middle East let's take Pakistan as an extension of the Middle East they do have a border with Iran Pakistan for a very long time was ruled by military dictatorship for a very long time I think only since uh what's her name Benazir Batu and her father.

Yeah, they're going to hang her. Did they hang her? She's dead. Yeah, they hang her already. Binazer B, her father Zulfika, those were the early uh elected leaders of Pakistan. Before that is all military dictatorship. Even after Benazir Bau, this guy Musharaf became the president. He's a he's a well he died um military dictatorship, military dictator.

Yeah. And now you have elected prime minister. The the last few have been elected but nevertheless they are entirely at the at the control and uh at the behest of the Pakistani uh military army.

You know they always say Pakistan is a army with a country because the country is run by the army. So basically you want to talk about a really full-fledged democracy in Pakistan is a bit of a long shot. So again when you have this kind of a situation autocracy, dictatorship, army with a country, you constantly need to prove yourself to the people that you deserve to be to occupy to be the top dog. So forget about going to the elections and having a a re real 100% genuine uh electoral system. Uh you you will need uh wars, religious threats and all these things to justify your

presence here. So for for the Pakistani army or the the autocrats the generals who have ruled Pakistan for a long time India has serve has been a fantastic boost for their image because is 24/7 they are an enemy so they always like to pick a fight uh with India

understood because since the the the real big war that was fought between India and Pakistan was uh 1947 uh 47 when they first separated then they fought a war and the the biggest prize was Kashmir you know Kashmir a lot of goats and animals there you know a lot of mountains

a lot of beautiful girls I was there she's beautiful place yeah it's beautiful place you guys keep on forgetting I keep saying lot of beautiful girls in Kashmir okay man so uh so you know you have uh Kashmir it is is cut in two one part is with Pakistan one part is with India so India calls uh the the Pakistani part as Pakistani occupied Kashmir Whereas Pakistan calls the other side is India don't occupy Kashmir. So that's been going on but the border has not shifted.

I would suggest they just put a fence there like Egypt has done and just you stay on your side and just go ahead and let your people have free access. They can trade, they can travel. Look at what we do with Thailand.

Yeah, that's it. You know I anyway so difficult. Anyway, so uh that's a situation in uh in between Pakistan and India. Of course there was a huge aberration 1971 they lost Bangladesh became a independent country that's another big saw point between Pakistan and India because India liberated uh Bangladesh

uh but India is a democracy this is the thing India the strength of India is a democracy not much else but their democracy is quite solid I understand that yeah their democracy is really solid India and their freedom of the press is I think unmatched

oh my god they go at hammer and tongs on TV man. My god, they're literally shouting at each other. Indian media press freedom is I think unmatched in the whole world. Uh so with that kind of a so it's Pakistan controlled by autocrats and generals and and you know a kind of a skewed democratic system. uh because they say that there are five very wealthy families in Pakistan five or seven who control like how many% of the assets and the land and they are the ones who provide uh sounds the prime minister

Benazir Bau is one of the families the now this Shabbaz Sharif is one of the families Shahi family they all belong to one of these uh the oligarchs huh so these are not really strong democracies and they they're up against India despite all its its uh faults and whatever you know is horrible about India, India is a solid democracy. So uh I think uh Pakistan is going to have some issues and uh it's not solved yet. And then inside Pakistan now you find that it is cracking up.

Pakistan is breaking up. The Baluchi people are really pissed with uh the center with Pakistan and I think they're gaining momentum in uh trying they want their freedom. they want to break away. Uh same now in the north with the Pashons and then you have another place called the Sind which is uh which is

Karachi is located there. Sind is not so bad but still there the people in sin the Cindi people are not entirely happy. You have uh then you have Pakistani occupied Kashmir which actually what the part of India that was worn in 1947. the people in Pakistani occupied Kashmir themselves want to self-determination

let me from Pakistan let let me let me uh maybe encapsulate for a short while uh don't don't weather me we've talked about all this right let me encapsulate it in this way why uh I'm I feel confident about the peace uh uh move in uh in in in in the Middle East by Donald Trump and I mean I I think that that photo uh with him and all the leaders in the Middle East, Islamic countries and the Western Europe there is just a good point to tell everybody the world order has changed and it is a Trumpian world order that is going to be lasting for at least you know 20 years.

I think I think the groundwork has been laid. I'm very confident that the the peace will be achieved um in spite of all this problem because you know any businessman will tell you you go and start a business or you go and take over a chapter 11 business and turn it around. You are putting fires but you got to be moving at all that speed that like what you were saying you know at break neck speed right so he may not solve everything during his term but I think he'll solve and put the foundation during his this current term and and then all the other things will start changing

with the next Republican term. I am pretty sure the next president for the next two term are going to be another Republican. I think that and and that I think August well for a world because the American leadership is back. I really believe that you know and um I think problems like you say in terms of Afghanistan and Pakistan are going to be just like stomping fires at by that stage you know because the big war that we have today is Palestine Israel Ukraine um Russia

right you stem that out and at the same time what he's doing on the economic front is actually say it or not it is a decoupling from China in my opinion it is a decoupling from China okay and that world order from the economic standpoint I think the timing is just right because Jim Ping I think this isn't this is a topic I you know I want to I want to go into for our next podcast just the banter between the two of us I've collected quite a bit of research on it

um and Um and and the fourth platinum is coming up right. So I think say it's been a good conversation. Thank you. And we should do a vote actually. Let's let's ask people informally whether they want to see more of site and uh maybe we should put a 10 gallon hat on you as well.

On me. Okay. I have a I have a fedora. I mean I got to say I got to say your your head is too big for this. Your knowledge of the Middle East is quite uh comprehensive. Well, I I keep track because uh it has major significance to us here.

I think so. Yeah. Well, if you're an Islamic society anywhere in the world, correct? What happens in the Middle East has a major significance because uh people are led by opinion leaders. People are led by what they think is religious threats or threats to their religion, which could be, you know, if it if it involves a Middle East, then it's it has a bigger impact. M

so because of that we have to keep track of what's going on and especially when you have these transnational groups that come out of the Middle East and spread their tentacles all over the world

we have to watch out for them. I I I think I think quickly on on on that part, this is where I mean things like this even on the economic front. I think we see things very differently because we have that knowledge uh we have that experience that are uh that are part of our DNA and we look beyond the bubble of Europe and America. So this is where I don't see any in the media that talks the way we are. So come here for our uh our perspectives,

the context. Yeah. I I I I was looking for this paragraph just now in that the statement that came out of uh Shah al-Shik. Yeah. Because to me this is the to me this is the defining statement that's going to

uh keep all the naughty boys in line especially especially Qatar and Turkey. As you said Qatar and Turkey are very much promuslim brotherhood. So this paragraph we are united in our determination to dismantle extremism

and radicalization in all its forms you know which means education system uh Erdogan didn't look happy in the oval office you know totally unhappy the two guys who are unhappy was Erdogan and that Qatar fellow the amir no society can flourish when violence and racism is normalized

that's what they do they preach this violence and hatred everywhere for narrow personal interests policy, education in their TV, media, you know. So this is what they they are narrowing down or when radical ideologies threaten the fabric of civil life. We commit to addressing the conditions we commit to addressing the conditions that enable extremism. That means they're going to go on a very cast a very wide net.

Yeah. Uh I think they're going to tackle even the textbooks that they have in their schools which we should do too here that the conditions that enable extremism and to promoting education, opportunity and mutual respect as foundations for lasting peace.

I love the way that statement is. This is a very important statement. I mean the the the the general statement of it people just have no inkling of how momentous those statements are. To me this is more important that the first phase withdrawal is the Hamas here the what demilitarization those are all the little details those are details

this is the one that's going to determine the lasting peace in the Middle East if what you say of the Republicans uh by the way you sound like a Republican governor of uh if the Republicans are around for the next 8 years 12 years 20 years this thing is going to be this going to be the the deciding factor the one that determines the future of the Middle East. So I think I hope what you say uh happens because there will be lasting peace because at last after decades they have come to understand that this is what we should do.

Exactly. The shooting can be stopped overnight. Okay. Cease fire. Cease fire. But if you don't change the mindset. There you go. Look at how fast we went together. You don't change the mindset you're back to square one. Yep.

Fantastic gentlemen. I think that's a wrap for today. Thank you. Share, like, subscribe, comment, and uh tell us what you think about Sam's hat again. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you so much. See you all again. Okay.

All right. Why?