The Trump Gambit: The 20 Point Peace Plan. Can It End a 1,500 Years Old Conflict?

All right, welcome back to the Gachuk podcast. Sam, good morning. Myself, Changang. So, now in the crosshairs, uh, Sam is the, uh, Donald Trump 20point peace plan for the Gaza conflict. Um, quite a blockbuster one. I think quite, uh, farreaching, bit, very ambitious, of course. Let's start with, um, what do you think about it?

Well, it's I think the perspective we have is I I I would expect for our audience, especially our American audience, should be extremely unique. We come from this side. uh of the world where we understand at least part of that culture um uh and ideology uh and the other thing that I think the perspective that I have for it is actually it's about stopping a war right this is essentially trying to get peace out of the war that has been happening since 1,500 years ago.

Yeah. So the fact it's not 1948, it's not 1963. It's not 1923. This whole fiasco in the Middle East has been going on for for,500 years at the very least. Right. So there there you go as a starting point.

All right. um the fact that Donald Trump is he's a bit like um he's like the political equivalent of um of Elon Musk in the sense he's taking all these intractable huge global problems and trying to solve them all simultaneously right he's trying to end war in the Middle East he's trying to um um address the dolorization of the world he's trying to address the fiscal deficit all at the same time and in the first one year um what is proposed for Gaza is actually quite momentous. I read through the 20point peace plan. He wants to dradicalize the place. He wants them to

give up hostages which they've held for a long long time. And not only that, he wants to develop the whole place and to make it attractive for investors. And if I'm an investor, it would take a lot for me to consider even putting in $1 into that part of the world because, you know, as you say, it's a,500year plan. It's a,500year conflict, right? Y

and um so of course there are snags, there are issues, there are concerns and uh right now as it stands the talks are going on right now in Egypt. In Egypt that's right um and there's already concerns that both sides are you know falling shorts of expectations not just in terms of the peace that the peace uh impass that has to take place but also the fact that they seem to be ignoring each other. Even Netanyahu has talked about uh if the US doesn't do it, if if the other side doesn't do its part, it's going to go on and make sure it go it happens in very extreme terminology.

I think I think it's best that we pull back a bit and look at the perspective of what we're looking at and then we talk about the uh the 20 point peace plan uh and how both sides are taking it. All right. I think the first instance is I think it's unprecedented what has been proposed because the first thing and actually this gambit of Trump um what is very interesting and uh and unprecedented is that even before the announcement he has already cornered the Arab countries to back the plan. So basically um basically he's got the uh support of the region prior to actually even making the

announcement. So that's the first thing different that he has done. As usual with Trump, it seems like everything is unusual and actually I think that was from the standpoint of strategy. Um it's a very um I would say uh it's bold. It's um and it's strategically brilliant. That's number one. Okay. As far as the the presentation of the plan itself. As far as the plan itself, we can go through it one by one. But overall, I cannot see a better plan that has been put forward by anybody prior that provide a guarantee for the Palestinians uh uh uh determination by

its own authority demilitarization of the place um and also for the security of uh of Israel. Now, as I said before, here's the funny part. Okay, I want to make this very clear. um that this is a,500y old conflict. It's a conflict that's got nothing to do with actually land.

It's a war. It's a belief. It's belief. It's ideology. It's a fact that you cannot live with each other. You know, it's very hard for people to actually uh uh uh uh really think about it because in the west, this seems very alien. It's a very alien thought. Okay, even us in Asia, right, we had the Vietnam war. Go for peace. Everybody go their own way. Vietnam is doing well, right? Um but somehow in the Middle East I think apart from the evolution of even after World War I and World War II they were still fighting each other in tribalistic fashion among each other

same religion. Okay, albeit you say some Shia, Drews and whatn not are different, right? But the tribalism by among themselves already they can't figure it out among themselves. It took a lot of oil money to get the GCC country

to actually be able to say, "Okay, I think it's time we stop killing each other and let's enjoy the good life." you know, so it's something within that culture and that tribal ideology um and the religious belief that make it so as far as I'm concerned. Don't forget, if you ask me, this is probably the last crusade. I mean this is going to be controversial but this is possibly the last crusade which was fought and lost by the Ottoman Empire during World War I. The Ottomans were basically defeated in World War I and the British and the Western Allies basically took control of the region.

Dude, let's be realistic, right? the that uh that Ottoman Empire that goes further back to uh um to the to to to even the prior Muslim empires that came in and conquered from um right up to Spain, right up to uh North Africa, India. It's a huge empire and a huge colonial uh colonial entity.

So what's the Ottoman Empire got to do with the fact that you've got these two? You don't forget right prior to that what I'm trying to say is that even before the Ottoman Empire that's why I say it's a,500 year old conflict right and it started with the colonialism uh of the uh of of an empire uh that is I think the the the second biggest empire after the Roman Empire which is the Muslim empire Right. Um, there were no Muslims in Jerusalem or Constantinople.

Mhm. Which is today Ankara. Constant. Constantinople. You mean Istanbul? Istanbul. Sorry. Which is Istanbul? Yeah. Right. My apologies. Ana is the capital on the other side.

I know. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean when you look at that, right? And then um Jerusalem had was taken right and it took uh a number of decades maybe about 200 before you know the the western powers actually launched their crusade to take back

uh Jerusalem. Right? So this whole ideology fight of what Jerusalem is all about goes way further than our time. But what we are do looking at today actually then is that are we going to see an end to this right? And the only way you can see an end to this is in all wars of modern era. Modern era but even before modern era we tend to forget because there are no uh nobody literally wrote anything. The Mongols went in and actually decimated Baghdad completely. there were rivers of blood, right? We in the modern era, we don't want to see any more wars. We want to see wars stopped.

Okay? But it depends on who you ask, right? That's the thing. That's the problem. And this is where actually I I take the position that um that World War I and World War II, especially World War II, as the most recent example, when you lose a war, you have to surrender unconditionally. There is no conditional surrender. Germany was humiliated. They had to pay reparations to France. They had to surrender unconditionally. Japan had to surrender unconditionally. The allies put two atomic bombs on it.

Well, those were world wars, right? But not all wars end up with a winner and a loser. Some of them find I look I'm no history expert, Sam. Um, but I I'm I'm willing to bet that not every single war that's happened throughout history has ended up with a zero sum game.

Well, so in in this war in the in in Gaza, for example, right, as you say, it's been going on for one and a half thousand years, right? Um, does it end amicably with both sides getting getting something? That is what Trump is trying to do, right? Here's the thing. It's a

So, it's it's a it's a quit pro, right? Let's stop fighting. You get this, you get that. In in this instance, in this instance, the basically if you want to say the winner of this war, which is the western power, say so be it from the time of British when they took the Palestine mandate, right? And partition all of uh with with the allies partitioned the whole Middle East including Israel and Palestine,

right? Which were not accepted by the Arabs at that particular time. and they got their butt kicked in the six day war. All right. In this instance, Trump is saying enough is enough. I'm going to give you some face. I'm going to give you a way out for peace. All right. And then whether I don't know the the politics of Israel, internal politics. I'm not I'm not an expert in that. Okay. I know that in Israel is particularly split as well as far as uh Netanyahu is concerned.

Yeah. But then again, you've got it on the table, a 20 p a 30point peace plan that provides both parties a way out of this in peace. And to me, when I look at that, I said, "Okay, you've got the backing of the Arab countries. Accept it. You accept it and you accept it. And the fact to me actually if you ask me the one that is crying about genocide is the first that has to accept it because you want to have your people who supposedly if I take the word for it that is undergoing genocide your first priority must be for the for the safety the health the well-being of your own people unfortunately

and that comes the other part right I'm not sure whether Hamas is ready for that or even wants it do they even have the decision makers because a lot of the top brass were annihilated right so who's there to make the decision right

let's put it this way there are people the bosses are no longer well the thing is the thing is there are people in Egypt making that having that discussion with the Israelis and the Americans

but who's representing in Hamas. Okay. So, we don't know who's in Egypt. Yeah. Right. We don't know who's in Egypt. But here's my problem that I think I mean why I think this whole thing happened. That's why I don't want to litigate this particular uh conflict from the point of view of you know there are a lot of people talking about it since 1948.

Okay. since the partition. I said, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It goes way beyond that." Okay. The fact that you lost the war and it got partitioned, every country in the Middle East got partitioned not to their own accord. All right? The same way when the Muslim Empire went on its own war path and actually partitioned the world according to its own accord. That's history.

Okay. So fast forward to the present right and um to try and understand whether this thing this plan has any chance of succeeding right why does Hamas exist and why would it say yes to this plan

because if it does sign off on this piece of cord they are essentially agreeing to be demilitarized right and to end fighting in that area right and if Hamas stated intention

is whatever it is right does it then call off its own demise Why would it do so? Right? And and let me answer you on that before we go too far. Yeah.

Right. When uh when the British headed over uh independence to Malaya, right? Uh we had a communist insurgency. Mhm. Right. the peace talk um for the communists uh to have peace amnesty for the leaders of the communist party to leave the country. All right. Those who had actually committed terrorism.

Okay. Right. They were allowed to leave. Okay. But what did they have to do? Everybody lay down their weapons. Okay. So when you are not the victor, again I said when the Japanese lay down the arms, they hand over their ceremonial swords.

The difference between the communists and Hamas is that the communist at the time probably felt they already on the losing end of the in this case. Do we assume that Hamas thinks it's on the losing end? Well, here's the problem that that the Palestinians face that actually most of the propaganda that I see coming out from the uh left media is actually this whole idea that um I don't even know this whole word about whether there is a genocide because if the Israelis were committing genocide, I think they're pretty lousy at it. you know, they've been occupying that place

uh or or they have been defending their territory from it and they've given back territory to Egypt and Jordan. Okay? You know, so the thing but even data coming out from the pal from from from um let's say the Palestinian health authority, those are data coming from Hamas. It's controlled by Hamas.

Correct. So, but then they themselves said it and here's the thing that people need to understand as well. Um, the leader, one of the leaders of Hamas himself said basically October 7th was worth it. Can you imagine? All right. And this is an uh with an interview in with CNN.

Okay. Let let me let me quote it. Let me let me quote it. Right. Um that you know that that uh what was uh what was said? Let me see. Let me find it. That you know uh when Hamas attacked thousand on October 7. That was like what? Two years ago now.

Mhm. Two years ago, right? At the music festival. Can you imagine this? You're going you're attacking for what? If you're going to attack, if you truly are looking at uh a military strike, why do you attack a milit Why do you go and attack a music festival? Kill more than 1,200 people.

Mhm. took back 250 hostages knowing fully well you only take those hostages as if you're going to rob a bank and then you need your escape route and you need

so you know some of the customers there to cover your ass so well Sam you are right in saying that Donald Trump is being extremely ambitious in trying to end an almost intractable war going back 1,500 years

when his predecessors including Barack Obama and Joe Biden failed to do so in had no intention of doing so, right? Um, so what's the upside? I mean, why does Trump do this? Why does he take on this challenge, right? I mean, the the the olive branch that he's putting forth for both sides to agree to this deal, not only do they get the hostages returned, right?

Um, but Hamas loses his reasons for existing. I think probably out of the 40 plus people that are still unaccounted for. Correct. The best you can hope for is probably 20 of them alive. Yes. Correct. So why would Hamas agree to this? Because if you are on a crusade in some sense, right? Uh a spiritual um jihad. Well, how would you define a jihad, right? It's it's a it's a it's a it's um it's a belief. It's it's a it's a I don't know how would you how would you describe just like when we say you know one of the biggest problem

it's a spiritual calling right to do so right and and then why why would you agree to this? The problem with most of the so-called spiritual calling is not totally spiritual is basically political leadership that actually we lose its power once it it loses control over the population that it supposedly is is is leading. You must remember

correct. So the people that are lead or or participating in the jihad on behalf of your principles, they're actually in some sense naive and vulnerable and weak weak of mind. Let's just say for example, right, for once of a better word,

controversial word, right? Yeah. Um so which makes me think because there they there are probably militants or believers or sympaths of Hamas all over the region. Why would they agree to this? Well, I I mean think about this, right? the the the the

both the Israelis and and Hamas, they don't trust each other. They don't they won't even touch each other with a 10-year poll, right? Just even before this, I I read somewhere that um

Israel last month attempted to assassinate Hamas's negotiating team with an air strike on Dha and they're supposed these are the people supposed to deal with Trump quite a bit, right? And of course, Trump was pissed. Hey, come on guys, I'm trying to broker this deal and both of you are still fuffing around. Yeah.

Um, so, so think that that is why I mean to me at the end of the day what Trump is doing is basically said enough of this. So, first of all, what what gives Trump the local standby to stand as a to participate as as a broker in all this? What what gives him

actually without if without the support of America I Israel is crippled, right? Is Israel is crippled. Yeah, that's one, right? Number two, I think if you think about it also, so so that's his that his cajul on Israel, right? On the other hand, um if truly Israel wanted to wipe out Gaza, they could have done it in a week. In one week, I can tell you

based on Yeah. based on their power. They kicked how many countries went to war with them um in six in what 67 and uh and they kicked everybody's butt in six days.

Yeah. But what happens as a consequence, right? The consequence is Sai went to them. um uh uh what do you call uh what's the other the other part uh of Jordan also went to them you know and the con and it took the brokerage of uh you know Sadat and um and Qatar I believe at that time you know to hand over those land for peace and then uh beggar and Sadat got assassinated

okay so so there's a 20point peace plan right Sam right um I I chose three to talk about because they seem to be interesting and they're interesting to me because if I'm a if I if I'm living in that region,

I want to see some peace. I want to see some some some prosperity. I want to feed my kids and and and and have a good life, a healthy life, right? And what he's proposing Trump seems to me to make sense to the residents of that area, but it may not make sense to Hamas. It might make sense to Israel because Israel at the end of the day, they want

I do think it makes sense to Israel. I do think it makes sense to the Palestinian people who are suffering. You must remember the Palestinian people who are suffering are not the ones holding the guns. Correct. So that's the problem. So you've got one party to the discussion that are probably not spiritually on board with the idea. Okay. Not just spiritually idealistically monetarily

monetarily because you're getting the whole if the whole Muslim uh uh global population let's say half of them are contributing towards uh funding this group

right what's their incentive they're not going to lay down arms why should they yeah they're living their their leaders are living well right their people go to what do they care

you know I think that's The biggest problem I I I found a quote actually. Imagine this, right? A senior Hamas official in Doha. In Doha, he's living in Doha. He's not even living in Gaza or or the West Bank.

Yeah. Right. And he and and and and this is what he told CNN. This was uh in September, late September. This is exact quote. Yeah. You know what is the benefit of October 7? Now if you look at the UN general assembly you know 195 people open their eyes and look to the atrocity to the brutality of Israel and they condemn Israel. We waited for this moment for 77 years.

Bloody hell man. I mean they are making their own confession. They did that not for anything but for the publicity that it brings them when the retribution comes. It's like are you mad that you are actually inviting this retribution on your own people for your standing for what you want not for on behalf of your people. Right? There's a saying right in that part of the world, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. On that premise, it never ends.

Well, it can never end. That is why here's the funny part. It does end actually when you think about it, right? When you think about that, the fact that um it took um it it took if I mean Saudi was a was a was a was a was a tribal mess is a peaceful country,

a very rich one as well. Yeah. uh uh I think the I mean kata I mean we've all we've we've all who has gone to Europe or America has has either stopped by Dubai or Doha.

I was in Dubai and a beer there cost me 90 ringit. Okay. It's ridiculous. I didn't have the beer. Right. Yeah. But that shows that they are very prosperous and things are going well. Actually, it's I think the world order and this is where um my my this is this is my problem uh with the mainstream media um and it's entrenchment of hating um the Republican side of their of of their politics because whoever is the Republican president and even now with Trump and his style, okay, anything he does is negative. Okay, Sam, can we just

But here's the thing. Okay, here here here is the thing. The thing is you've got a a proposal that now to me it has to be forced upon Hamas if you ask me. It has to be forced upon Hamas. And that is the reason why Trump gathers the Arab countries around the proposal first. And that is actually the leverage that he has taken on Hamas because one of the funding place and the safe place for Hamas is in Kata. Okay. So hence you know even the discussion today it's not even in Kata is in

right. So they chose a relatively neutral place as well. Yes. Right. So that is what um that is what this whole effort is is is is aped at. But if you ask me, I think it needs Hamas to say I'm going to lay down. Okay, I'm going to allow my people to participate into this uh without me having the power and you go for election as because he's offering amnesty for everybody.

Yeah. Um so under this plan yeah uh points 10 11 and 12 are interesting if I'm if I'm a if I'm living in that part of the world right so Trump has proposed an economic development plan okay

to rebuild and energize Gaza with a with by convening a panel of experts uh and these are the experts that have helped birth some of the most kind of like modern miracle cities in the Middle East and some of them you can see right the Burj Khalifa and I mean it's really architectural marvels you know

so for Gaza to be rebuilt and rejuvenated in that in that manner and form. To me, it's interesting if I'm if I'm from war torn Gaza to something like this, which is an economic miracle. Interesting. Right. Interesting. Right.

Um uh they're going to uh um uh look for investment proposals, uh exciting development ideas, international groups, synthesize the security and governance frameworks. Of course, you need to have u you need to feel safe there, right? And then create jobs, opportunity, and hope. So, so what Trump is suggesting in that part of the world is to me very interesting. It makes sense to the Israelis. It makes sense to the people of Palestine and and and the people of Gaza. It may not make sense to Hamas. And that's to me that's the stopping block.

That's the stopping block if you ask me. The biggest I mean when the when the um when the news came out excess rates, I mean it'll be cheap stuff. It'll be low cost zones, right? Um duty-free areas. Fantastic. You can shop, you can have fun, you can go for restaurants, you'll have peace and prosperity, you'll have people to feed your kids, you'll have tourism, it'll be beautiful.

Who doesn't want that? You know, this is where I want to stop the clock, so to speak, for people who are listening, right? I want to stop the clock because this is a new era. When Trump come to power, he's he is looking at it from a businessman standpoint. Of course,

that's why he's draining the swamp from all the deep the the the deep state people, the CIA. He's putting his own brand of people out there because the old establishment were all about regime change. They were about um spreading democracy. He never talks about all those things. He's talking let's do business, right? So, I mean, I don't even want to think I I don't want even want to get dragged into the discussion. Oh, look at 20 years ago or 15 years ago, 10 years ago, what happened prior to Trump, right? Because this is a new world order. And what he's saying is that this is how things are

going to be different with America, which is basically let's establish a place that people can come and and make money and do business. Right now the question becomes actually more than anything actually it did not um it did not surprise me at all when Hamas came back and say okay we agree except for the word except for you know actually really irks me because when you lose a war because as as as they already said October 7 was actually a bait it's a bait to kill their own people so that they can portray that the Israelis or to be frank the Jews the way they look at it as bad people.

This is the whole mindset the problem that they have over there. So if this thing can only work by a force of of uh viol of an act of violence shall we say right act of force who exerts it? Does America exert it or does Israel does Israel exert it? If if you ask me for me person I mean if if if if you put to me I think

the US will via Israel as a proxy part but we have heard the latest already we have heard the latest already even when Hamas came back with some condition Trump was already telling Netanyahu that's a good start okay because again his whole idea the same way he was approaching Ukraine, the Ukrainian war. He was willing to give away territory with respect to Ukraine as long as you stop the war. He just doesn't want war.

Yeah. Right. So, in this case, actually, if you ask me from a principal standpoint, nobody should come in already with any conditions. However, Trump is willing to even accept certain conditions and negotiate on those conditions which is to me already magnanimous. And for all those who are going about and say, "Oh, Hamas, you know, must insist on this, on this." Dude, that's a terrorist organization, right? You don't go and attack um attack a music festival and kill a,200 people and do and and think that you are freedom fighters. No, I think that and I don't know any Hamas

militants, by the way, Sam, but if I but if I'm one of them, right, and my belief is that you don't belong in on my land, right? Your trespasses on my land and you've been trespassing for thousands of years, right?

What gives this American person the right to come in and tell me, I'm going to rebuild this area, and everybody kind of live happily ever after. Well, it just doesn't happen. There's only two choice. There's only two choice, you ask me. And this is the this is my point of view from pure from pure geopolitics.

Okay. Pure geopolitics. Nothing. I'm looking at it uh as as a as as cold and as surgical as as I can. Right. In any war, you lose. Okay. Either you accept surrender unconditionally or I wipe you out. That's that is war. Okay. Trump has put forward a plan that basically tells you, "No, I'm not going to do that." All right, please accept this. Okay. Now, to me, if you still cannot accept such a good offer uh in terms of people willing to rebuild, money is going to come in from I I I I guarantee you coming from the Middle East.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. quit pro otherwise why would they be on board of course right they've got they've got money to burn there's going to be golf courses with Trump's name on it I mean okay but that's beside the question yeah doesn't matter right

yeah this is the thing that I I just don't I don't give a you know in the early ' 80s right I was in school in Penang right and my classmates's younger brother a kid called Fiz like 12 years old 13 years old natural he was like the tiger woods of that era right very good golfer he was he went to the Middle East he went to Dubai to play golf right, to represent Malaysia in the youth games. He said, you know, in the early 80s, right,

in the middle of the bloody desert, there's this whopping great 36hole golf course, completely verdance, green everywhere, water. I mean, it was it was like a an engineering feat, you know,

and he was blown away. I played in I played at uh I played at Abu Dhabi uh national. Um it was not a desert at all. Yeah, it was all green.

I played at the uh Arabian Ranchers in Dubai. Uh where actually I think that was more interesting for me because it was a desert course. Right. Yeah. So you got you got your fairway which is you know green and then you've got when you're off your fairway is basically a desert.

Yeah. Right. Right. And and can be duplicated between warn everybody seen video of war. Right. Yeah, there is no there is no contest this or this. Of course, this man, you know what I mean? But the problem that we face actually if I think the the the bigger issue at the end of the well at the end of the day is this

uh this animosity to be honest this anim animal animosity towards uh towards Jews it's ideological clash right even if to need to be eradicated in that region

to me if if your if your stomach is full and your kids are looked after and you have health and and and happiness in your family, there is no reason to fight. The only reason you would fight is because at a higher spiritual cerebral level, you think that your land is being tro on by intruders.

Let me put it this way. If you have political leaders, political leaders, who actually take advantage of your uh of your being,

downtrodden or or your uh your lack of things. Okay. And says and actually by doing that they are the one that are getting rich of it. It incentivize them to keep on having that power. Right. So

I see that in some countries in the world. Oh god. I you know no it happens all the time. Yes. Yeah. Right. So in this case the enhancement of it is the ideology. Right. The enhancement of it is this radical um uh version uh you know of the religion that makes you hate the other party. Stop that. It's enough.

Yeah. You know, not so easy, right? Right. Not so easy. Well, that's the thing. And that's where I think sometimes your empathy, here's the problem, right? Your empathy is actually funding the political leaders that are actually continuing actually the atrocities

they are. When you have a Hamas political leaders simply saying that that was worth it. October 7 was worth it. How much more do you want? How much more proof do you want?

Okay. So what are the economic and geopolitical repercussions of how Gaza is decided for us in this part of the world? I mean one thing I can think of is maybe oil prices, right? Actually, what are oil prices right now? 70 bucks, 65 bucks,

60 plus. Not great, right? Great. Okay. Great if you are great. No, no, no, no. Great if you're a consumer. Not great if you're a producer. Well, let's put it this way. I think at the end of the day, I mean, I'm I've been in oil I've been in oil and gas uh practically all my life, right?

Um you can't you you you need energy price to be low, right? Whether we like it or not, activity for activity to occur for for for the rest of the economy to be to be

vibrant to be vibrant, right? And for poor people to be able to move up. Correct. Right. So for oil people I always has advocated this actually you need to cut your cost.

Yeah. You need to be more efficient. You has to be more efficient. The problem with oil companies is actually we are not efficient and not just that we overpay ourselves. I'm being honest. It's true. It's true.

I'm being honest. Um I think a RAM cost of of production is about 30 31 if I remember correctly from my years ago. I think US shale is somewhere around 25 27 or so. I mean shale shale is somewhere around there.

Yeah. I mean so they're still making money at 65. So I think so they'll stop. Yeah. Yeah. If they can't make money over on that they'll stop the cycle the cycle will will will go up and down. I've I've I've always I've been advocating for the last 3 years that the benchmark should be if you must be able to operate at about 50 bucks per barrel.

Your cost of production. Yeah. No, I'm saying that you you must be able to make money at 50ucks. At 50 bucks a barrel. I agree. Well, at 50 bucks, everybody benefits. Y consumers, business people. So, you have to be very efficient at what you do. You know, you must adapt. So, going

if the Middle East conflicts plural are addressed, what does that do for oil prices? It brings it down, right? See that? I mean, you ask yourself this question as well. Look at Iran. Look at Iran. Why are the Ayatollah still in power?

Fourth biggest reserves in the world, right? Yeah. Why are the Ayatollah still in power? Because they are still being funded by sales of their of their oil, you know, to China and, you know, China is buying most of their oil,

right? And you think about it, right? You think about it. You think about it. The people of Iran is has revolted, I think, two or three times. Yeah. And they can't do anything. Why? because they don't hold the guns.

Yeah, they don't hold the guns. And the thing whether you like Trump or you don't like Trump, he's not about to carry out regime change. That's not his philosophy, you know. So, I did ask that question. I said, you know, you will always have uh Iranian uh regime fueling unrest as long as they are in power, unfortunately.

And Iran funds Hamas, right? There you go. You know, so does it. So does it continue as well. It feels as if it might be on but and that is to to some extent it made me uh I mean I it's very understandable for Israel to defend itself and say I'm going to wipe out Hamas. Why is that not logical? And the problem is

how does Hamas how how does Hamas operate as a guerilla group? Really you operate within the confines of your own people. You build tunnel and you build uh you you have your armaments under hospitals

you know and then when that get bombed out you cry genocide. So that is the that is the uh conundrum that we have with respect to what is happening over there. They know the leadership of Hamas know that their action when it's prolonged because they're not going to get truly wiped out because why? If truly they're going to get wiped out

a thousand heads snake it's going to be a genocidal thing because it's not truly a genocidal thing. Yeah. If it's a genocidal thing they would all be dead. So if Hamas does get eradicated significantly, what does Iran do? It funds another militant militant group. I think I think I I think I think Iran let's take that as a separate issue because I think at the end of the day Iran has its own problem. All it's doing is actually funding groups outside because it need to distract

uh and its own pop its own portion of population that is uh that is propping it up probably even 30% maybe even less that is propping it up you know um and and and it it needs the money for for it to actually ensure that its soldiers get paid its military people get paid so that their leaders are protected. Otherwise, you'll have a rebellion.

Yeah. Right. So, I think I think you got to solve like everything else in the world, you got to solve one thing at a time. I mean, you got two major uh major conflicts uh right now, which is basically Ukraine and the other one is Palestine, Israel, right? So, these two even if this either one get sorted out, you know,

it's a win for sure. It's a it's a huge win already. Do you think it gets the uh it's a Nobel Prize achievement or don't know take take what you want to say about it, right? You know, nobody has ever done that. In fact, I don't even I mean everybody played down the Abrahamic Accords.

Was a big deal. It was a big deal. A big deal. But the the media played it down. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that what we are looking at actually the next uh few weeks I do hope because I think I think we can't afford to have uh this conflict continue and then fueling uh this resentment uh within the uh global Muslim community you know and but it's a it's it's really a conundrum because if the global community doesn't realize that the political leaders within Hamas is not incentivized actually to see this war end. They're not. So,

of course, of course, I I I don't see, you know, but and that's why Trump used the pressure from all the Arab countries. So, I think the only source that he can do the next one is actually to just close the spigot of uh of funding, you know, from all the Arab countries. That's what basically is h is he's trying to do close the spigot of the funding and um I think u kata uh Iran um you know there was already rumors that they're going to well it's not rumors it's already been spoken that uh Hamas has got to get out of Qatar so guess where they may end up we don't want that

where we don't want that them anywhere near us. That's what they say. Yeah. You know, I mean, we we don't need to import this kind of ideology into our our community.

No. Yeah. No. So that that to me um is is where we are at uh with respect to uh the the the peace plan. I think it's unprecedented. I think it's commendable. I think it's uh uh it's something that to me outright Hamas need to accept it unconditionally.

Okay. So two closing points to draw a line in the sand, right? Y first of all out of 100% 100% being absolutely certain that this this war will end with a 20point plan 0 to 100 what's your guesstimation

and then secondly I think the more important secondly is how does one position either in as a business person or as an individual person with this issue. I'll go first. Okay,

you go. I think at best I think at best and this is purely just pulled from the bottom of my mum bum right okay I think at best it's a 45 to 50% chance of success at best so you are giving it for uh 45% chance of success

yeah 45 to 50 right and it seems to me it's it's nearly impossible how would I position I I don't think it changes anything from where we sit definitely I I don't trade oil futures I I I don't you know I don't think it's going to have a material bearing the financial markets are moving anyway Um I won't go to Dubai or the Middle East for for holiday yet. Um does it increase the temperature in that that part of the world? Maybe. So that makes maybe uh international travel a bit more dangerous. Uh we went to Turkey earlier this year just to do Turkey so that we won't have to run.

It was beautiful. It was beautiful. Loved it. Right. Beautiful people. And you know what? Because when you go to to any country, right? And all all human beings want the same thing. Exactly. They all want the same thing. They want to eat. They want to be healthy. They want to love their kids. They want to feed their families and and have a meaningful purpose for life.

Problem is always the political leaders. Correct. Correct. The Turks are beautiful people. So you give it 45 uh 45 50% at best.

Yeah. I think you and I we are probably about the same where we are. Okay. Uh I think I l his ambition, you know, Donald Trump. Yeah. Great going right. The fact that you took it on thought bloody hell, this is a big one. Well, I think I think let's put it this way. Nobody has ever put no previous president has ever put on the table something as meaningful as this that actually uh uh has a possibility to even work, right? So, you got to I mean, geez mainstream media, you got to give credit where credit is due for attempt. Okay. Then the the and if he wants to have his golf

course, you know, right next to who the hell gives so be it. So be it. Right. Right. Do you know what? Right. So So what's your percentage chance? 45. What? I I think it's 50/50. 50/50.

I think it's 50/50. I think I think I think u you know you know there was a there was an interesting uh photograph that I saw in the oval uh of Trump and Netanyahu at the Oval Office. Uh I didn't see the video. I don't know whether there is a video which actually he called I think the prime minister of Qatar and basically handed the phone to Netanyahu to apologize.

Yeah. You know uh to for that attack. Yeah. Right. So you can see unlike other American president, right? He's not beholden to uh the whims and fancy of uh of of of Netanyahu.

The only problem is that guy is quite a wild card himself. Yeah. You know, because he himself also may have problem about staying in power, right? And and you know what? How old is Netanyahu now?

Gee, I don't know. He looks pretty young. He looks young, but he's not young. He's at least in his 70s, right? Yeah. And and you know we have I have parents you've had parents in the 70s before we've we've been around men in the 70s at that age they I think the Malay word is a bit sometimes

what is the M word I don't know but sometimes sometimes no I think he has always been a hardliner the the question is then sometimes you know um in I hate to sound very uh hawkish, you know, but uh I tend to come from a position where some you know when you when you can't come to a conclusion at the end of the day, let them fight it out and you know I'm I'm I'm done because you you look at it as you rightly put right whatever happens we still do our business

that that that small piece of land over there out in the out near the ocean, right? It's got nothing to do with us. Yeah. Really got nothing to do with that. I wish our people would remember that. It's got nothing to do with us whatsoever.

But it's a lightning rod that galvanizes the emotional emotional because they that that little piece of land as you say and that is exactly what the Hamas leader said. He want what they wanted was to actually generate that emotional. Yes, that emotion

and it affects the lives and thinking of billions of people who are of that persuasion, you know, and that has to change. You know, if if you c if if to me sometimes it's a question of, you know, if you cannot you let the dog loose. That's all I say.

Yeah. I think at a more deep level also um I think if people put more intellectual application to what's happening there they might not be so uh passionate about the whole thing right oh unfortunately human beings are not right human beings are led by emotion first

yeah and but they don't think it through deeply enough you know yesterday I was playing tenn I played tennis quite a lot right and yesterday I was playing tennis with this the coach right he's in his late 60s early 70s and they were talking about Donald Trump and of course they were lambasting Trump. He's a man man. He's so unpreent and uh he's psycho and he's he's going to, you know, the world is going to end, right? So then I asked him, I said, "Coach, um why do you give me three reasons why you don't like Donald Trump?" He said, "Well, the first reason is because the way he talks is so

unpreent. It is so off the cuff and it's like a like a gangster." Okay, fine. Delivery approach, performance. Sure. Right. But at a substantive level, right? What don't you like about him? Uh I don't know. uh he just seems crazy to me. So if he seems crazy to you, is he really a crazy person? Have you analyzed it through? And he says, "No, I just can't remember. There's so many reasons I can't remember now." It's it's like

that has always been the case always. So you know, there are many people around the world who are like that. Oh, I don't know Donald Trump. But why don't you like Donald Trump? I don't know. Have you studied his his policies? No.

You know, it's it's like people say, "Oh, I want to save the world. I'm going to buy an EV, mate. You want to save the world and buy an Eevee? Are you mad? Right? They don't think it through because they're intellectually lazy, right? They don't.

Then they say, "Oh, Bitcoin is a scam." I know you don't like Bitcoin. And then, oh, because it's a scam. But do you know what it is? No. Have you done any research? No. How much have you read about it? Nothing. So, why is it a scam? I don't know. I just think because you can't see it. It's nothing. You know what I mean? Right. I'm not saying anything about you. But generally speaking,

that's why I try I I don't want to comment on it because I don't I don't that's the difference. You just change the terminology between Donald Trump. That's the difference between No, no. To me, that's the difference between people like ourselves. We make a comment or you will not make a comment if you don't know anything about it. Neither would I. But when I know something about it or I have research on it, then I'll make my commentary on it on specifics.

Okay, here's the troublesome part as well, Sam. How do we know what we're reading is the real thing and where is the truth? See, that's the other thing. So that's why when when when you know I used to really idolize the, you know, the the media, Financial Times, and the Wall Street Journal and the International Herald Tribune. No, I think they're just rags. Well, if you

and so I'm now I've got to triangulate pieces of data from all around. What we are doing actually why we are having this conversation is because we are taking we're taking all these different information and triangulating the data and coming to our own conclusion. And I say it very clearly why I think nobody talk about this from the point of view of a,500year war.

Yeah. or or or ideological conflict, right? Because people are just stopping at uh 1948, hey dude, this has been going on much longer than that.

Yeah, right. And the whole ideology about it, why did the Hamas leaders say like that? Because they want to generate hatred for Israel and Israel is where uh the Jewish state is,

right? I mean, you go to Pedang up north. You go to Pang. Do you know that we have a Jewish cemetery in Pang? Of course. Where's the synagogue there? Yes. Tell me where is the synagogue?

I don't know. It's not there anymore. Yeah. Right. I had Jewish kids at my class in in Wellsley. Yeah. Two of them. So where? His name is Ephraim. You know,

seriously, I'm not kidding you. I mean so I think I think we have to look Muslims have to look themselves in the mirror okay and ask themselves look as always I always say you if you want to be better you have to look at yourself in the mirror and say why you are like this right why there are no they were they were they were you know I mean they were fighting each other nonstop and then They lost the war. They lost the war and the and they say the colonalist partitioned them into areas that they they had no say about it. Dude, every everywhere in the whole globe is

like that. All right. It is a version of who colonized that particular area and partitioned it the way the the winners do it.

You know Sam, I would actually go further. It's not just the Muslims or the Christians or the Jews, right? The truth is humans have only been around for at at best maybe 15 million years. No, no, no. Less than that. Sorry. 20 20,000 years.

You go human civilization. So human civilization have has only been around maybe 15 20,000 years, right? Yeah. At most. Um, you've got the book of Christ which also only ostensibly goes back 2,000 years and this is BC AD, right? That is so presumptuous of them. But anyway, so the human human civilization has only been on Earth at best two maybe 3,000 uh 30,000 years, right? The Earth is a few billion years old.

No, no, human survivation. Now you're going to the gen to to the Homo sapiens. Correct. Correct. and you go back all the way to let's call when people start actually uh having uh uh uh uh cities

correct okay so literally probably you're talking about less than 10,000 years maybe even 500 if this is the lifespan of of planet earth humans have only been here for this much you know and here we are squabbbling around with our petty insecurities dumb it

dumb right and the earth is so old and you And you think and that's where I think we think it's so important and it dominates our mind and mate let's get get some perspective look into space and see how big we it is you know

stop it and just say okay let's let's shake hands by gone be by gone and have some ice cream and and have a laugh you know I mean look at look at you you I I bet you've been to Ho Chi Ming

Yeah right right they don't have any animosity to the Americans. You go to Japan, right? Okay. They had to they they they had they they basically I mean it's a big thing for them

to surrender their ceremonial swords. Every single one of them. Yeah. Right. They did it. Right. Because the emperor was more concerned about his people. Yeah.

Okay. So the question we have to ask is very simple. Are you I think was it God mayor who said this or Mushe Dad you know which is this the fight will stop when they love their children more than they hate the Jews.

Exactly. Okay. Exactly. That's as simple as that. And if you cannot understand that particular portion Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry. I mean, you can go and empathize all you want,

you know, you're just funding a war. Yeah. That is killing the people that you purport to be sympathetic to. Yeah. And since you have a smart saying, I also want to have a smart saying. Okay.

Please do. I think I think is it is it Sunzu or Confucious who said all human beings have two lives and the second life begins when the human being realizes he's only got one life. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. And you're only here for one for for such a short space of time. Make it count, man. Why fight? No. Why Why are the Hamas leaders in in Doha? Go and stay in go and stay in hotel in in in Gaza,

right? You know, fight with your people if you're so inclined, you know, but they living nicely in Gaza in Switzerland and whatnot. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So I I mean just be realistic about that. I think I think we probably covered quite a bit of what our feelings are with respect to that. On that note, I think uh Friday there's quite plenty that we we really have to talk about.

Yeah. Um and uh the government shutdown is going still shut. Yeah. Um and uh the furlows are going on. So we'll talk about that, right? Yeah. I think I I I find it um the also interesting about the next candidates coming out for 2028 is already starting to make their moves, you know, and that's going to be interesting and I um I think uh there are other things. So, let's let's

yeah, let's keep that for for the next session. All right. Thank you so much. Let's keep it short. Comments, like, subscribe, and ask him where his 10 gallon hat is. Okay. I I'll bring it out once in the blue moon. Okay.

Take care. Thank you.