Genocide of Stray Dogs – Where is our Humanity

Uh another issue we are facing here is there is no government veterary which neuters which helps to neuter dogs only cats. You cannot find you have to do it on your own. If an individual is going to go and neuter his or her dog it will cost you RM 350 to 400 ringgit. If we go through NGOs you can get about 200 to 250 ringgit for example. So the cost is there. We have many veterinary students. They can open up a government vets give subsidy 50 ringgit per dog. People will go and start neutering. I have had many calls please help me to neuter my dog. B40 category group of

people uh the lower middle class earners they don't have the money to neuter the dogs. Even if they rescue those dogs from the streets based on sympathy, take care of the dog, take the dogs from the street, but you still have to neuter them. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Gutshot podcast. I'm Shams Sam, your host. Um, today we're going to be talking about dogs and specifically we will talk about the treatment of stray dogs and even dogs in general in Malaysia. uh it has been quite a polarizing issue and um some of them some of us would think that actually uh the treatment as

such has been quite cruel. So I think that without further ado, I'd like to uh invite here uh also a friend of mine uh Sashi Kumar. He's the founder of the global human uh rights federation, an NGO fighting against uh injustices based in K with members all over the country. Okay, Sashi, welcome to Gajot. Thank you very much. Thank you. Glad to be here with you. All right, guys. Okay. Um I think uh we go straight straight to the issue at hand, right? Okay. I find that uh I think a lot of times uh we see a lot of polarized comments uh with respect to dogs in

particular and then we talk about uh the the the the stray dog situation. Okay. uh this has been quite a fight uh from not just your NGO actually spoken to quite a few of people in the NGO community um that uh the treatment of uh stray dogs uh problematic to say the least. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Maybe uh Sashahi can you just uh enlightened uh just give us a bit of a brief of where we where you where where what are the problems that uh you see uh with the handling of the stray dogs uh in uh in in in our Malaysia. Yeah. Okay. When we talk about stray dogs issue, this not something new actually. Okay.

It has been going on for 50 years ago. Okay. That's the actual truth. 50 years back right since I was young even when you were young you can see a lot of stray dogs on the streets they have been already there it's not that there are some people saying that oh it's being dumped by owner okay the responsibility of uh responsibility of the ownership that is partly yes but the majority of the stray dogs they have already been there for ages for 50 years back now I'm 50 years old so the the problem is one female dog here it can give birth to 10 to 11 puppies for an example and if you talk

about the western nations there were problem uh of uh stray crisis even cats or dogs but the western nations even Japan New Zealand Australia what they did is they took the humane ways scientific way whereby they neutered these dogs they neutered these dogs and they place them in sanctuaries or shelters let them live there so this has depreciated ated the quantity of stress in that particular nation. That's why you don't see any stress in Europe or in Japan, in New Zealand, in Australia. Why? Because this is the method, the humane method which they took. Mhm.

But we since 50 years back until today, they have been shooting dogs. The first time I saw a dog being shot when I was 9 years old. Mhm. I still can remember the dog was a brown dog, black eyes. This guy chased it, shot it, it fell into my house drain, which is about 4 ft high. He just put a rope at the neck of the dog and just dragged it and the I I can still imagine until today how the dog was looking at me in fear, tears coming out, big black eyes. I can still remember. And until today, still that barbaric method is still being done here now in Malaysia. Nothing changed.

Yeah. Well, let me ask you this question. Here's the funny part, right? Um why is it then that the I mean, if you're going to keep on shooting dogs, okay, poisoning as well, beating them to death as well. I have the proof. Uh why is it let's say let's call it is almost like if you think about it I remember yeah you're right this is from from the time when we were young right um and uh I want to go a bit into the cultural situation that we have uh to a certain extent because uh it prevails into the mindset of how we treat this issue but uh what what what I don't understand is is

it is almost akin if you were to ask me it's almost akin to the uh to to the word genocide. Yes. You know I mean if you start killing let's say a segment of a population right you will wipe them out. Okay. Now here's here's a very basic question. If we've been committing this genocide for a long time how come we have not wiped out uh the street dogs? That's the thing. That's what we call it karma. We call I call it you call it but scientifically yes scientifically empirically we should have less train but why do we not have you're right this is why in my videos I

mentioned even 50 years from now later in future you will still have these problems this why they don't realize it uh uh they're not focused basically because you're supposed to neuter them like I told you a female dog can give birth to almost 10 to 11 puppies just like that. And if you start neutering, you see, forget about the female dogs. If you start neutering all the male dogs, it the procedure only takes about 10 to 12 minutes only. And you can just let them back. Female dogs uh they need a recovery process. They will take a day about two days basically, you know. So

if they would have started to do this from north to south, we would have solved the problem. But today uh another issue we are facing here is there is no government veterinary which neuters which helps to neuter dogs only cats you cannot find you have to do it on your own if an individual is going to go and neuter his or her dog it will cost you RM 350 to 400 ringgit if we go through NGOs you can get about 200 to 250 ringgit for example. So the cost is there. We have many veterinary students. They can open up a government vets give subsidy 50 ringgit per dog.

People will go and start neutering. I have had many calls please help me to neuter my dog. B40 category group of people uh the lower middle class earners they don't have the money to neuter the dogs. Even if they rescue those dogs from the streets based on sympathy, take care of the dog, take the dogs from the street, but you still have to neuter them end of the day. So who is helping to neuter these dogs? Another thing, if you talk about western nations, they neuter, they do microchipping. So if the dog is lost or is out, you know where to find the dogs. M but

in Malaysia we have already recommended this uh when we were fighting for justice for copi in October 2024 until today the government is not implementing anything they are not ready to listen to us we had meetings several meetings we have given them suggestions uh proposal working papers but everything has been sidelined why one simple reason they said that they don't have money the government has no money this is the answer I got okay even you talk about this place called Kundangaya is at Raang. It's a Malay majority area. So there are many dogs and uh you know they started to the the

the people who are living there. They started to kill the dogs poisoning them and and so on. So we went down to rescue and we had some arguments you know in the process and these dogs actually it's a new new area. They were left by the developers. The local councils know that whenever there's a developing project, they will always bring the stray dogs and put them there. Place them there. Why? Materials. Materials. They become they use stray dogs as guard. Yeah. They give them food. Stray dogs. They are very simple. You take them, you give them food, they're loyal to you. Finish dogs just

you give them food. Two, three days, they remember you. You come after a month, they'll shake their tails and come to you because they know you. M they can smell you. That's how dogs are. So they use these dogs for that purpose and after the project they just abandon them and leave. That same thing happened in my place as well. Same thing everywhere. Wow. But the local council is not holding them responsible. They do go there to tell you honestly. I'm going to tell you this straightforward. I don't hide anything. It's all under table money. Simple. Why can the local council or the KPKT

committee ministry of housing and local government they can impose a law to the uh developers you take the dogs make sure you neuter them you vaccin them after your development your project you find a placement for them they don't do that but they bring the dogs end of the day you know um okay I'm I'm going to I'm just going to generalize it a bit I think for our audience Uh I find it because I travel a lot like you say. I mean the uh not just travel a lot. I think I I mean I I went to school for four I would I stayed in America for 5 years. I used to and I traveled quite

a bit uh in Europe as well. Right. I don't see the kind of stray dog problem that they mentioned including in Japan like you said. Um and their treatment of dogs are very humane. Yes. Even in the the Middle East, I see uh Middle East, the Middle Eastern Muslims, okay, uh don't have the same attitude about dogs the way uh Malays tend to seem to have an attitude about dogs. Yes. Um and my thoughts are actually it's very much twofold. I mean, just bear with me for a short while. I want to make a comment on this. Um cuz number one I think it's a cultural rather than a uh a religious uh

issue because um uh from a if if we have that if it's a religious issue uh why are we treating dogs more cruy as a general society or authority compared to um in uh uh any of them you can take can any Middle Eastern country like Hatar or Oman um which uses dogs as hunting dogs and they have dogs in their uh homes. Uh but we have this u very vile reaction to dogs and then I think culturally um I think politically it becomes uh a polarizing point that u is also used by the political elites in order to divide and rule the society. Uh

but okay that being the case all right let's look at the I mean dogs actually I well this is what I find in terms of on that uh what what you were saying um I was trying to do a survey through Tik Tok live right so we have we had some who came up on the live when I asked them what is the problem the first thing they answered me is to haram. Okay. And their perception that dogs are dangerous. They might bite us. They will attack us. They will chase us. They are bad. They are evil. So I look at it as dog phobia. That's how uh this kind of perception, this negativity has been put into their

heads. Wherever you go, you see uh I've been with dogs very long. Had a shelter, managed the shelter. Uh I had thousand overdocs in the shelter. I whenever go into the shelter, I had no issues. Not even one dog has bitten me. Even I'm doing feeding outside. Whenever I go out to a new area, 10 15 dogs are there. When they see me, they will bark because they don't know me. But I've never been chased, never been bitten until today. Yeah. Here's here's the thing. I mean, we are going into uh we're going to go deeper into this. Wait a second, guys. Um I have a message.

Quick timeout. My dear friends, our metric shows overwhelming number of our viewers are not yet subscribers. Appreciate very much those who haven't to subscribe and like our episodes. It does not cost a thing but two seconds to hit the subscribe and like button. It helps to spread our content further and build this movement to save the country. Thank you so much. Now, back to our episode. Okay, we're back. Thank you guys for staying on. Now, um I have uh I have I You're right. Actually, um I think uh even when I was young, I'm very scared of dogs. Okay. Uh it's been it's been drilled into my

mind. Um and let's let's not say that uh how many people has been bitten by dogs or stray dogs, okay? compared to how many pe how many um students or young people actually every every other day or every week that we hear stories of um abuse on our children in schools. Okay, let's just compare that. Okay. Okay. But why don't we just uh uh have a have a have a firing squad for all those people who actually abuse children. Okay. And we take those people as as najis and haram the same way we look at dogs. Anyway, um I I I have a personal anecdote about this with

respect to dogs. you know, Sachi, this is why I I I want to hear your story and I brought you in and to talk about this. Um, because it's been great in my mind. Okay. We're scared of dogs. We don't know dogs. We don't want to get near dogs. As I grow older, I mean, I go to America, I find actually it's everywhere in uh your friend's home, right? You get used to it. Okay? And realize something. If you're scared of it, the dog gets a sense of fear. Fear that of your fear. It is actually a dangerous sign. Okay? Because then actually you are giving out uh a dangerous signal because I think from a

scientific standpoint, I always come from that standpoint. We are we are secretreting um hormones and you know uh what's that called pherommones or something like that right you know chemistry yeah and these molecules dogs can smell it because that's why they use for hunting that's why you know they can trace uh uh convicts that run away you know for miles okay so they sense it very clearly if you are in fear of them you you you automatically become an enemy. Yeah. All right. They will be afraid that you might do something to them. To them. Yes. And then they react accordingly.

I'll tell you an uh uh uh just to close on this point so that people really understand what um especially for our Malay community that are same ingrained like me from young. Okay. I was in Texas. I No, I was not in Texas. I was in Louisiana for a meeting. Okay, it is down south and I went for this meeting. I was in the conference room. I was waiting with uh one my uh one of my subsidiary CEO uh for uh and this is a place where actually in in in out in the bun where you know oil and gas is done in Louisiana. So, two dogs came in, huge dogs, you know, there were dogs over there,

okay? They are big dogs, right? And I was like, the minute I look at it, okay, I got two problems here. Okay, I'm scared. Okay, but at the same time, I can't show I'm scared. I'm having this meeting with these Americans, all right, who actually carry guns with them, okay? because we are down in the in the south where you know and and then you want to come off I'm trying to c them to come to Malaysia right so dogs to them is uh is also a sign or they know whether you're a good person or not you know because if the dogs are friendly with you then actually you know they tend to take that

as a good sign right yes and what happened was I immediately switch in my mind. I just mind over better to say I'm not scared of dogs. Okay. I'm going to be so relaxed. I'm going to take the dog as it comes. Right. And that dog, two of them were walking right under me, under the table. Okay. I was just so cool about it because, you know, I wanted the business, right? and everything was fine. And from then on actually every time I see a dog I actually take that kind of attitude and it became I got more used to it you know and I don't have the fear and neither does the dog react negatively.

So that is something that I noticed. You learned something. I learned something about it. Right. Um, so we have actually a cultural issue involved as well. Yes. And I think it's also been reinforced by the authorities. Okay. About these stray dogs. Okay. And um how we act against these stray dogs. All right. I was in. I I I want you to show people the kind of uh uh you you show me that just now. Let me let me show show everybody. Shashi, you show them. You show them. Okay. This is how government KPK. Okay. Now, hold one. I hold the other one. Okay. There are three here.

All right. This is about under an is about you are an owner of a dog. Okay. Your responsibility the risk if the dog is uh left behind or uh left to its own accord or whatever. Okay. So that's the picture you get. Okay. Fans coming out from this dog. They look very manageable. All right. Okay. This is risk of um rabies. Yeah, there's no rabies in penia by the way. Okay, same. These are all coming out from our government. Government this how they portray the dogs. Okay. So, are we not surprised? Okay. Are we not surprised? This is to me this is like um this is like this is

propaganda that is creating a phobia. So Sashi Yes. Go on continue with your story. I've I've spoken enough to actually give the impression from my side of the Okay. Here uh what I look at uh coming back to Kanganaya issue right I met the MP. Mhm. Okay. From PR side. Mhm. So we sat down with the community of that particular residents right and myself. So I gave them some proposals and all that how we can remove these dogs. Of course you need a budget, you need allocation for that. End of the day the MP came back to me and told me that the councils of PKR rejected the proposal stating that they

don't have that funds. So my question here back this is a national crisis. We look at strays, stray dogs, stray cats as a national crisis. But you want to take the uh uh what do you call that the the ways and means of killing them in a barbaric manner, but you are saying here you have no funds, no money, but you can fund countries in distress abroad, which has nothing to do with Mia. millions, hundreds of millions can be given to other nations to show, wow, Malaysia is a heroic country and all that. But resolving your own issue in your own nation, you refuse to do that. And here

we the NOS's, the individuals, we have to be for donations like beggars to sustain the shelters, right? To sustain these dogs on the streets, to neuter them. It's all our own pocket money. Until today, I've neuted I I countless dogs actually. It's not easy. But what the government does is they catch them, they put them in in the pound, they hold them in ransom. It's an extortion, I call it. Mhm. You give me 1,000, I'll release the dogs. Why? You want a dog, right? You pay 1,000. Why? I rather give them away for free. That's the thing. So when Na K okay the

minister of KPKT spoke in the parliament on 12th November 2024 he was that's the time we were demonstrating outside the parliament and he was saying in the parliament that oh uh no stray dogs when they caught we don't kill them you know we try to put them for process adopty if no one adopts then we give it to the shelters who's paying for the shelters are you really giving it to the shelters You are lying. You are He was lying. I'm telling you straight here in the public. He's a liar. I can tell you this. What makes me very angry. You are charging us. They are making business out of the dogs

which they hate so much. This is a hypocrisy. You hate dogs in the parliament openly saying and haram. But here you're using the dogs to make money and earn that money which is not even halal. You know, here's the thing actually for for our Muslim audience. I suggest they look at alkaf alaf and and and the the story of the uh in in the Quran. Have a look at that. For example, I don't want to go into uh uh many details enough to give a hint that how why in the Middle East they treat uh the the dogs a lot more uh like what the western uh community or the Japanese

community treat dogs which is like with not just with mercy they are the man's best friend because why I think the I mean these are sentient animals they are they feel they can get sad they can cry by you know and here we are uh committing genocide on our own land on this uh on these friends of human beings I think uh something is wrong with our psyche you know um I think the other thing is actually if you talk about that right just those those those poster you show yes you are reemphasizing I mean if imagine if I want to equate it to Islamophobia. Okay. This is a doggophobia.

Yeah. Dogophobia. It is right. You know, imagine the people put posters like us about Muslims. You know, come on guys, wake up. So, it's difficult to change the people's mentality. So, whenever I engage uh in Tik Tok itself, the version, oh, the government is doing a good job. They see the government is doing a good job, the local council by catching the dogs. I said catching that but still there are thousands outside there. There are still dogs on the street. Yeah, that means something is found somewhere. Their mechanism is a failure. Yeah, I I I think it makes sense because

I can understand now I thinking about it now is why neutering is better than killing is because when you neuter you stop already every you start you stop the production. Yes. Right. Um, and if you charge, let's put it this way, if it's if you if it's true that you are charging any adoption, it's really dumb because people or shelters or NOS's can take they don't call it adoption, they call it bail out fees. Why? Another thing I want to tell you, I'm going to get shocked now. Uh-huh. Okay. for stray dogs. Everybody must hear this out very clearly. A lot of people don't know this.

Under the unang or they call it the bylaws by the local council, there is no such thing bailout fees for stray dogs is only for pet owners. That means the negligence of the pet owners who let their dogs out by local councils. they will be imposed on the bail bailout fees of 1,000 2,000 something like that. That's for those pet owners who have dogs due to their negligence. There's nothing about stray dogs under their bylaws. So what they do since there's nothing there, they impose this pet owners who let their dogs out on the strays which are being taken by

the shelters. Let's say we take them in 10 15. pay you have to write you write to them ask them back them you know for reduction they'll give you okay 300 350 per dog is 500 ringgit per dog they charge per day like staying in a fivestar hotel the pound charges per day in the pound lot different local councils they have different various of rates it's not fixed you see this is why I have a problem with the uh with the I think it was IGP or whoever it is that come up with a number of 50 billion nit annually of corruption in this country. Imagine, you know, we don't even need 1

billion to solve this problem. I can tell you for sure. Okay? A few hundred million would do this job. Yes. You know, but guess what? Actually, if we read the political crony house like one of those in the newspaper and found hundreds of million in cash, we could use that money to solve this problem. Another thing I would like to before I forget, the local councils, they hire a third party, okay, on doc catching, right? So, uh we had a meeting early this year at uh Vhana's office. Uhhuh. Okay. So I said let's start a pilot project here in Blaywan no more killings build sanctuaries

shelters okay this is what we do gave them the working paper the proposal everything uhhu that's it done so the even the DBKL uh directors were there so I told them why are you imposing this kind of fees and all that and uh I told them that give us the dog catching uh contracts give it to the shelters they have shelters end of the day we can catch we can put them straight in our shelters and the way we catch will be more humane compared to them catching these dogs end of they said oh it's about tender you must put why do I need to put a tender I'm not interested in putting any

bloody tender I'm telling you I'm an animal lover we will take the dogs in give us the catching fe everything give it to the nos's shelter owners and give it to them let them do Coming back to dollar and cents. Now I want to give you a tender. We know. Come on. How it happens all the table. Let me let me put it this way. Okay. I I would have a suggestion. Trust me. Go ahead. Okay. So, so, so, so Hayo told you no political secretary. The political secretary told you that uh that that that there is a tender system for this. Sorry, not political secretary. uh with the political secretary the DBK

the DBK. So this okay tender koala lump very easy for koala lumpo very easy okay what are you paying uh for uh do let's assume the last few years you tender and you say um they they they what maybe per per dog per dog right per dog so how much per dog they paying now what I heard is about 80 and above 100 plus per dog 100 ring per dog okay I guarantee you okay if I implement this I give to the NOS's catch 50 or 30 ringit per dog enough for them to char to uh to the patrol do to do that okay don't have to tender give it to all the NOS's to do it.

All right. They will handle the shelter. Okay. Is this how you catch a puppy? This puppy is not even a two months old. Is this how you catch a dog? Is this SOP? Is this SOP to catch a dog? Question. Can someone answer? H I don't even carry a cat like that. Okay. You know this is cruelty. Why I was saying earlier genocide mass killing? Yeah. This happened in ST. Wow. They dig graves docked well docked pre-planned. Each grave you have about 10 to 15 20 docks maybe inside like that. Okay. That's how they have been you know conducting these mass killings. Basically 35 dogs in Patani January

beaten to death with iron rods and the feeder the dog feeder can hear it from outside. They bought they brought two lorries to take the dogs outside. The local council uh close up the gate. They said no we not going to let them out. They beat them to death. This is why I call it mass killing and genocide of stray dogs here in Malaysia. It's a genocide. Nobody can run away from that. You know, I can challenge anybody on this. You know, if it's nis and can you you scientifically do you guys understand this part or not about uh consciousness? Why dogs are actually uh

very easily friendly with a human being and why they can guide your children? Why they can guide your house? Why can they guide your property? Why do they get attached to human being? I'll tell you why. Because for thousands of years already this dog has evolved to be near human being. Okay? You know a dog. Let me tell you guys what I've learned. Okay, a dog has the consciousness of like a three-year-old child probably around there. So what you are doing with all this, you know, yeah, you call it culling. Cruy culling is not if you're beating them to death, you

imagine you actually beating to death three year old children. How about that for a change? Now the mega question which is going on around the nation now they're going all out in killing the dogs now because of the 2-year-old okay 2-year-old which was bitten by the dog. It seems same thing happened last year at this point orangasi where a 19 months old was beaten and killed by dogs according to the police by the end of the day when the postmortm report came out. So when the news came out, there were so many videos condemning people like me, the animal lovers, animal activists, dog lovers and

all that. Why are you all condemning us and all that? After a week, it came out. It was attacked by Harimo Kumba. After the postpartum report, it was not dogs. Straight away, no videos, total silent. So the target, the aim, like you say, the cultural, the religious factor and all that. M the hatred was purely towards dogs done now this 2-year-old who went out from the house right okay even the orangask and all that but none of them have questioned or even asked about the kakana the child act 20001 act 611 what does section 31 cross one uh and section 33 says What does he says about

12 years old? Below 12 years old children must be supervised by an adult parents guardian. How come these small children, small kids, they are roaming around house doors, gates not closed, no adult supervision. Why did that happen? Until today, no one questioned that. We have heard many cases where children's, young children has been kidnapped, hit by Lori, hit by car, attacked by monkey or even a panther, snake, fell on the drain, broke their arm, head. We have heard so many stories about young ones. But no one is questioning about the negligence, the callousness of their parents or their

guardian. But they go back to if it's a dog. Yes. But if you talk about others, they are silent due to other incident. M so this is the hypocrisy I look at and if I look at it is more towards hatred towards dogs here in this country that's period we can't change that so today the government has rejected the trap neutral release management TNR they have uh rejected that this is why we gave them a few options those places uh like uh the exantry South Grizz Milan last year he said he culling a stray dogs in Muslim majority area this happened last year so we went

down we demonstrated in front of his office all right so he said okay those who came and demonstrate please take all these dogs and put in your house this how the answer is so they don't want to solve the issue they just want to create hatred after hatred and even uh the people the dog haters we call it or whatever They are not even thinking straight. Just kill the dogs for how long do you want to kill? How long do you want to go on like this? This is why we have been giving them solutions after solutions. But everything is just going in vain, not being hurt.

I I I I tell you guys why I laugh for all the politicians that talk like that. Okay. Um I'm just reading this uh pony. Why don't we kill all these teachers um that are sexually molesting uh children? Yeah, we should. Yeah, nothing changing. I mean, if you can if you can u if you can hit the uh dogs until they die, I think we should do this with all these teachers that are molesting children. How about that for a change? You know, I think we should have uh we should have Can I give me that one? Which one is it? The the the the the man. Give me the Okay. Instead of All right. Why don't we say

something? Okay. What? Why don't we do that? Huh? Government. It's really getting me mad. I think KL DBKL. Okay. Koala Lumpo. I don't know. You know who's federal territory minister now why don't why can't you I mean you this also you cannot solve within your area of jurisdiction right do a nutrient program do where actually yeah very simple everything under DBKL give away to the NOS's give away very simple I told no need cost why do you need cost to give away uh something that costing you money every day. So stupid. You cannot give away.

If it costing you money, give away. Anyway, go on, continue. Today the truth is we are now most of the angels are under the mercy of the local councils and also the government. M they said fighting is going nowhere against them. See like Batu Pahhat just about two weeks back two three weeks back 40 dogs were killed and thrown into a garbage by the Batu Pahad local council. A video and a picture of it is there thrown away 40 dogs. But now they're riding on the 2-year-old which was bitten but no one is questioning two year old in the house. The grandmother was there both brother and sisters. I

think they are around maybe 12 13 years old or something like that. But how did this two-year-old walked out from the door from the grill or from the gate? Nobody's talking about it. Very suspicious. Okay, let's talk about it this way. Let's let's look at solution right because why um I for me for one I think uh if we look at how the western country does it all right you look at how Japan does it look at how the Norwegians or the um the uh in the Netherlands does it I mean you walk around all over I used to go to the Netherlands quite a lot during my days in Shell okay I don't

encounter this actually even in the villages. Right. Right. Because our training center were usually in the villain outskirt of town. I don't find this in the H or in Amsterdam. Okay. Um and five years I was in Gainesville in Florida. Okay. There was three dogs but they are not as uh rampant or issues like this does not even come up in the newspaper. Why can't we learn from other people? Why are we so special? Why can't we learn how Qatar does it or how Oman does it? You know, why do they not have a problem and we have a problem? So, let's find let's let's let's give a

solution. I have a one I have one that I I know very clearly with uh you know Koala Lumpo since I live in Koala Lumpur, right? If I were municipal council number one, okay, why do I want to tender for contractors to do it? I just get NOS's to do it. Yes. Okay. I even would actually ask NOS's if they are willing to do it for free. I I would challenge it that way. Okay. Instead of tendering and using people's money because why? I bet you people will donate to NGO if you do that. Yeah. Okay. One. Second, why do you give why do you uh have to uh have to charge

people to take the the animal away? All right. The only thing I would do is actually do I mean uh uh create vet clinics or or or not not just create but actually support vet clinics to do uh this neutering program. Yeah, I think we maybe we you know then I think maybe uh we should get elected and do this. Yes. No, be rational. Yeah. Just be practical about it. Be rational. Be compassionate. Right. Right. I I thought you know Okay. The last one we have to be compassionate what is wrong with our thinking that we don't understand that word compassionate something is wrong you know

so where what else would you be doing Sashi okay uh I mean I look at it this is government's responsible but this burden we are taxpayers but this burden has been thrown to us. That's not fair. It is thrown to us because why? I'm paying for the contractor to do to to to pick up all this thing. That's taxpayers money. Yes. Okay. Even that. Yeah. Okay. Yes. So the the intervention of the government is very very important. This is why we have been trying to engage with them, talk to them. You see the amount of memorandums, working paper, all which we have been giving them.

There are more in my place and the minister, the MPs they have been meeting. So everything is useless. You know this doesn't give them any position. The working paper everything. See this is a circular from the meeting we had. Mhm. And they said TNRM is rejected. They don't agree on neutering because it goes back to the same uh area. They don't want to see dogs on the street. And also shooting of dogs is allowed. Shooting them is allowed. Mind to kill the dogs and the cost of paying to kill the dogs, but you don't want to pay for the neutering. Yes. Why don't you just flip these two?

Instead of killing neut two two two problems here they go back to the streets which they don't want them to be on the streets. Uhhuh. Okay. Or if you want to open a place a temporary occupied land to okay to build a shelter costing. So the government don't want to do this both they rather just kill the more they come to just kill kill. I think another 50 years they're going to do the same thing. Nothing's going to change. Another 50 years the same thing is going to repeat. I know I'm not sure how dangerous are dogs compared to rats. Now in K everywhere there are rats. Many

have died due to rat disease but here I look at it they focusing on dogs more compared to rats. Anything else you want to add? H yeah we are over but I I I can see clearcut to me there's a solution to this. There is a solution. There's more than a solution to this which is to do it the responsible way by the elected government. They are the only one can do it if they want to. If they keep on hopping, we got no money. No money. But you look at it tabongaji millions gone. Fell down. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. It's not millions, it's billions. Billions. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. All this

all this money can be used for that. Solve this problem. I'm telling you five years down the road we will solve the street issues only five years I'm telling you throughout Mia nothing on the street open lands to land give lands temporary occupied land under the government build shelters let the NGO take care of it give them some some allocation solve the problem once and for all neuter is only one time once you neutroduce anymore that's it why so difficult is is not a rocket scientist thing. When you ask them, they say we got no money, no money, no money, no money. But

hundreds of million can be sent out to other countries. How is that? I keep saying this is this is our typical government which is because the the MPs basically even the government they rather talk about stuff where they can get people's support and votes. So they are least concerned about dogs stray dogs stray animals. Okay. I think that this is a serious problem now in Asia. I'm telling you the way it's going then they accusing dogs are biting childrens. Dogs does not only bite one particular race or go after one particular race. Something don't right there. They don't

go after certain race or religion. No you know I have childrens. They have been around dogs neighbors everybody. None of us got beaten. I've been feeding straight off. I can bet anyone any area there are 10 dogs, 20 dogs, I can go inside and I can come out without even getting beaten or even chased. Why is the mentality these are the kind of things when you look at when they put in people's head haram najes they will bite they will chase they will kill you they will whatever you know dog phobia I think uh I think if you look at all dogs right in terms of uh which one is

vicious and all that right I mean I I don't know much about Okay, let me tell you this. Okay, I don't think in Malaysia no one is born bad. Huh? No one, no human is born. Same goes to dogs. Let me let me put it this way. I think I think at the end of the day, okay, uh an abused dog will become aggressive. Will become aggressive. Yes. Yes. Okay. Just like because they beaten, they are kicked. You see when people tell me dogs are chasing my motorbike, chasing motorbike and all that. Yes. But not many dogs. What? Why these dogs some dogs are doing it? Because going on a motor I have seen

in front of my own eyes they will kick them or they have a stick on the motorbike hit them they said okay if another person does it why they just they don't know they see motorbike that motorbike is going to harm me that's it. So that's the cultural part of it. If we treat them like you know we abuse them then they will it becomes uh uh you are a source of abuse that you become a danger you know that's one thing. Okay. Then the other part is actually is uh how we have created this this mindset of uh killing of dogs and being abusive to dogs and being genocidal to dogs is somehow okay

you know I I can't I I'm sorry guys you know if that is our religion I don't know what to say. Okay. The other thing is actually um if uh if if you ask me about species kind how many how how many you know dobermans or uh what's the other one uh pitbull non they're not strays those are those are really expensive animals to import and actually keep our dogs are not pitbull or or or roers or or do you know so I had actually when I was in Louisiana I think those who were doments and even those were well behaved as long as I'm not scared of it they come no problem

something is wrong culturally with all how we I mean I look at that poster I said, "Imagine if I put every Muslim as a terrorist. What is wrong with us?" I don't know. Do you have any last word you want to say before we wrap up? But I was thinking we are a progressive nation, developed nation. Okay. Heading towards uh you know more humane humanity. But the way I look at it, we are moved by barric. So living in Malaysia now, you know, for many of us when we see this kind of sick things, it's very sad. We're going to lose our investors, our tourists. End of the day, when people abroad, they

look at us, my god, this is what Mia has become doing a massive genocide towards stray dogs. Actually at the end of the day I always say to people like this you know I think uh I think it's always leadership right right if you keep voting for the same people who don't care like this you know enough they they the administrative function the civil service the DBKLS the municipal council get the people who you elect okay who become ministers uh that come under them if the leadership at that ministry plus the leadership at the very top you know really look at this as a you know

doesn't see this as a genocide does not see this as cruelty well these are people we elect that's my my my closing argument you know so on 7th October they're going to have a gathering a mega gathering in front of the parliament on 7 on 7th of October October 12th afternoon. Okay. Okay. We are not only calling animal lovers, we're also calling animal haters who don't like to see on the dogs on the street because we also don't want to see dogs on the street and getting beaten up and killed and and so on. So, we want to push for our proposal and we want changes. So, we want to have this mega

gathering and we organizing for this mega gathering. I think that enough. That's it. That's it. End of the day, this government has failed. This government has totally failed and they have to change. They have to do something about it. Killing, killing, killing, killing, keep on mass killing is not going to change anything. It's just going to give bad name to Malaysia. Bad image, bad reputation. We are univilized. We are barbaric. That's what he's going to portray throughout the world. Ladies and gentlemen, without in mind, Shashi, thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Okay. Uh, we leave it at that note. Do we still want to be barbaric? Bye. See you again. Thank you.