Rakyat Tsunami – The 3rd Force

Hi everyone, welcome to Guide Shot Podcast. I am Shamsul Sam, your host and I'm back today with my partner, Syed Akbar. Good morning. All right, we we we had we have been having a lot of comments that come out about alternatives to the current system. Talks of third force. And independence and new new political outlook Indonesian well. So today we're going to touch into this area specifically to see to to to see whether a third force so to speak whatever that means can that be realized or forever will it just be a conceptual matter? Can we do that, make it happen? What what what is what is

possible? So we're going to we're going to talk about this today with my friend Syed. Hope you can join this conversation. Please if you have not subscribed, please subscribe and like so that you we can get more these videos out to the public and have them join in. Syed, since we are talking about this concept that has been thrown about a a lot more these days, you know. And let me let me kick it off with with your thoughts, all right? We've just had this this fuss of a I mentioned to Siti when she was here this fuss of a two-term vote limit that two-term limit that was a

total fuss as I was concerned. So this third force if we want to change how do you see it coming about or the as you mentioned just now, the idea of this third force is is gaining traction. Rather it has not gone away. Third force is actually what is the word? It's a it's a euphemism, is it? It It actually means that people don't like the present system. That's why this whole talk of third force, third force is still hanging around and it it is gaining momentum actually. People are not seeing the change that they have been hoping for since I don't know when what the almost maybe

30 years now, you know, people have been asking for change. The promised change has not happened. So that's why now there have been changes in government. We're talking about a political a political situation. Now we're talking about the political equation in the country where the government has changed.

Well, our opposition is now Those who are in the opposition for years, for decades are now in power and so many things, you know, the coalitions, the previous party that was in power that lost the elections now is back in power. The equation has changed so many times now over the last since 2018 the last 8 years.

But on the ground the people are not seeing any real change. That's why this is this this non-stop incessant talk about third force, you know, about reforms because the reforms have not changed. So there is a need for a third force. It is just another way of saying we need real change. And this change is not something pie in the sky or some weird idea, something fancy fancy that came out of some liberal-minded people, maybe like people like you and me who come up with all these fancy ideas. No, these are regular changes people have been asking for over the last 30 years now

which which was promised, which was in the manifestos in the election manifestos of those people who won the last previous elections and who are now in power this this promised changes and reforms, but nothing has happened. So the people are back to square one. They're asking How long have these people been in power now? What what three years? Well, no, I I date it from 2018.

You date it from okay. So we're looking at what? Eight years. Eight years. Eight years. Nothing has changed. No, the government changed in 2018 after 60 over years in power the the the single, you know, government party that was ruling this country since independence. They finally they were they got thrown out in 2018 and everybody was hoping for a new dawn, a new future, you know, everything new in Malaysia, but nothing much has changed. The people who have taken over since then we have had four prime ministers. The people don't see the change. So they're still talking about third force.

What you said now people are talking about it we need change. So this is why yes, the third force will happen, but uh how exactly do you organize a third force? Is is a third force actually going to be faces and names behind it, warm-bodied people, human beings or is a third force going to be a concept? Is a third force an idea? Is a third force a list of a wish list a list of things that we want to do? Which could also be a third force because if that if a wish list that the people want is delivered, that is the third force that we have done the job, you

see? So in what form is this third force or the changes or the reforms are going to be done? Are we going to do we need a new political movement? Do we need a new political party? Do we need a a new hero on the horizon? Because the previous heroes whom everyone was hoping for didn't turn out to be as heroic.

They have let the people down. So do we are we going to wait for another hero a human being hero or are we thinking about a philosophy whereby if we can sell the idea of this third force to the public to the people you know with the well, we don't have to sell the idea. If the voting public can agree to what they really want and forcefully put forward what they want to the politicians, then those changes that are that are required may finally happen in the country. So we have to go by objective. It doesn't matter what animal you drive ride or what car or how you arrive. As

long as at the at the destination that you arrive, you achieve these things for the country as a whole, then the third force the objectives of the third force would have been achieved. My thoughts on this is the same way I look at corporate governance or corporate leadership, all right? If you have a chapter 11 company or what we call here a PN17 bankruptcy company, yeah, you know, the banks, the creditors and the shareholders will kick you out. You know? Because why? You have not delivered. All right? It's simple as that. Okay? And then what they want to see if

I'm going to extend you more credit or actually have the credit I've given to you, okay, not be put not be not wind up your company, okay? I want to see a new management. Because why? At the end of the day, I said that we can have all the grand idea that we want. We can have a manifesto. But if your change of people does not happen okay? Um the delivery mechanism is not there. So both I think must happen. One without the other that's this is my opinion, okay? One without other doesn't work. I can have if I have the same management, okay? Uh the same team that has been

that that has been running it and not performing and actually promising and not delivering I want I want to change the the team. Whether the I change the team two to three people or I change it wholesale, that's another story altogether, right? But and then I'm going to hold on because when you take a company and you want to turn it around and you got to present to the creditor what, you know, you got to present to the court what, you know, you got to present to them with the turnaround scheme. All right? Which is if you talk to me about politics, I say I want to

see what you're going to promise and how it what you're going to deliver. It has to be written down. Yes. What do you mean by third force? What do you want to achieve? Exactly as in a turnaround scheme which you have to present to the bankers and if you're a listed company you have to present it to the Securities Commission. What exactly are you planning to do? So that should be the exact same thing for a third force.

We need to articulate. And put to the people what exactly does a third force want to achieve. I want to trace a little bit on the last elections where the third force did try to take off. The effort where you were involved. Along with Taufik Tun Dr. Ismail, Siti Kasim and KJ John. Siti Kasim, Taufik and KJ John offered themselves as independent candidates. Sadly they all lost their deposits. There was a meeting. Taufik and KJ John called for a meeting and asked me to attend and they did ask me to be one of those one of the candidates. I politely declined for quite obvious reasons because we

were very small at that time and sadly they lost all of them lost they lost their deposits and all that, but it was a good attempt. It was a first attempt. These things normally take time. But that was a case of people stepping forward, you know, putting themselves forward physically. I'm here. I want to be a candidate. I want to represent you and I can do this for you, things like that, huh? Uh it was too few and too little. Uh but to me at that time, which I did mention, it is important to have what you just said. You must have the written down statement. What is your exact turnaround plan?

You have to state it. You have to list it down. It cannot be like the 200-page manifesto that they did the last time in 2018 and finally Dr. Mahathir said, "It's It's just a manifesto. We don't have to deliver on it." You know, you can't do that.

politicians simply say, "Oh, this is just a manifesto. We don't uh uh uh No, you can't do that. I have You know, remember in one of our earlier podcasts, we discussed how to win two-thirds majority. I put up a list. I put up a list of about 10 10 things or whatever. That covers about the things that all Malaysians want, you know, and I think a third force should do that. You should create a short list. Don't make it a 200-page list. Just a simple list of like say 10 items. These are the 10 things that we want to achieve if we win the election. This is our This is

what we all want to do and then sell it to the people. So, that is so critical to have that list of things. What is it that you want to do? What is your turnaround plan? Put it down on paper, you see? So, this I think for the third force to succeed, we have to be able to do it. You can expand or decrease a bit on this list of items. You can have a discussion of what exactly you want or don't want. That's fine. But general things which are which are third A third force basically means if you want to change the policies, move the country in another direction, huh?

So, in this country at this point in time, it is easy because what we need to do is one thing, you know, which of course we need good thinking on that, but it is easier because there are things in this country which we do not want anymore, which can turn the country around. Say say, can I can I just interject just at this point because why? What Since you you talk about the last general election, I think one of the biggest hurdle that our public needs to be able to change their mindset is that the don't think about the formation of government that you need a formation of

government. You need an infusion of new blood with uh with the the the principal manifesto, as you said, written down, okay, that you aspire the change to be because let the just like the free market system, okay, you need to start first in terms for the free market system to actually develop. Rome was not built in one day. Even if you get three, four, five, 10, a small block can be game changer in terms of how policies get implemented, in terms of what is being debated in Parliament and therefore push the agenda that you want. Now, go So, if you look at constituencies alone, right?

You only need a certain constituency that you that you know, they are not performing that people can stand for if if the voters realize that they need to start making change and just not depend on party, but look at the person that you are electing and what is their promise and can are they really uh in your judgment have the character and the conviction to want to see this delivered and that goes to the manifesto, right? My way of looking at the manifesto after, you know, talking to you, talking to other people, I realized something. Make it simple. You know, because why? If you ask me, yeah,

a 10 list, we can talk about a 10 list. I said, "Give me five." Give me five fundamental change that you want to see. And then I'll hold you to that five. It must be significant.

It has to be significant. Major changes, yeah. I I Yeah, I mean, I divide into a few a few classes, a classification. On the economy side, I honestly feel that these toll roads have to go. I think we have been paying the tolls for too long, you know. They have been Obviously, this is not the best method of managing when you collect tolls for decades without end, you know. And now some of them have been extended, you know. So, that is a big burden on the society and I think we have to get rid of that. Uh either abolish it completely or, you know, reduce it drastically. I

would prefer abolishing it completely, especially because many of the toll roads are GLCs where the government has a stake. In some cases, the government has the major stake, you know. So, if the government itself is the collecting the tolls from us using our money, taxpayers' funds, why not just uh abolish the tolls and then uh free up the the that amount of spending money by the people, huh? Of course, you cannot just abolish the tolls overnight. These people have racked up debts, the toll operators, and they have they have owings, corporate borrowings in in the

billions of ringgit. That has to be sorted out, which can be sorted out. It's not impossible. Just get any regular banker with who understands debt and, you know, restructure the Yeah, they'll restructure the debt. They'll know how to do it for you. Bottom line is remove this burden from the public. I would put this as among the top in my reforms that we need in this country, yeah, the economic reforms. Then we have to do away with all these ridiculous monopolies and oligopolies which are sucking the blood from the people, huh? Uh and all these other restrictions and

controls in the economy, we have to get rid of the ah long system. The ah long system is is bleeding the people dry. But why is the ah long system thriving thriving so well in our country the last 20 over years? Because we have created a banking as an oligopoly ever since the the consolidation of the banking system. We have so we have much fewer banks in the country. There's not enough credit available to everybody throughout the country, which is why the ah longs are filling in a vacuum. But they are filling in a vacuum at 20 25% a year interest rate. And then they don't pay taxes.

And the ah long business is in the billions. So, the government is losing tax revenue by the billions and the people are paying 20 25% interest again by the billions. So, who's gaining from all this? Why what's wrong with these people? They can't understand. So, to me, these are the the main economic reforms. There are more in the economy that we must do in this country. Get rid of the monopolies and oligopolies. We need reforms in education. You know, our education system is not the best in the world. It's in pretty bad shape. Uh we were part of that, you know, the

PISA maths and science scoring system or whatever. Then we pulled ourselves out because we were doing so poorly. No, we have to get back inside. Do poorly, fine. Just pull yourself up by the socks. Yeah. Put a target. Next year we will go up the We will go up the PISA scoring system, PISA scoring system for maths and science. Put a target. Put the target on the uh Minister of Education, Department of Education, on the headmasters, on the teachers. Put a target on them. That's how you do things. No, we'll just pull out. Yeah, yeah. We'll we'll teach more religion and we and and and that our our

PISA scores go down and we pull out. English is more important now than ever before. And the the latest thing, this AI, that's it. You do not know English, you you're out of AI. And that's it. You maybe you can You know how to turn on chat GPT and please draw a picture of so-and-so. You can do that, right?

There is more to AI than that. So, we are losing out. So, are we going to make a decision on English in our education system? Can we do a referendum? Let's put it to a referendum. You know, put it to the people. Maths and science in English. Put it Put it to a referendum. Ask the people what they honestly think. That way we we can make a better informed decision. No, they're playing politics. So, these are these are some of the things that we need to change. And whoever wants to be a third force has to take up these issues and put it to the people, you know. And then you have the other basic

requirements that it is high time we abolish the Sedition Act. It was abolished in 2018, but it only lasted a few weeks. That's one of the things I I I I feel very the freedom of speech, yeah, Sedition Act. We have to amend the MCMC Act. We have to totally overhaul our defamation laws, you know, the libel and slander, which are stone age now. We we inherited it from the from the British colonials who had this act, you know, what, since 100 years ago. The defamation acts, slander and all this. We have to We have to seriously amend these acts considering all the the skullduggery and

the swinging from the trees kind of things that politicians get involved in, we we need to be able to discuss and criticize them openly without fear of being sued in court for the smallest infringement by the politicians. So, that's why we need to change all these acts. This is the This is what a third force should do. There are many other things, you know. So, we need to list down. A third force is basically a list of things that must be done. I I look at it. I think uh uh I I would synthesize um what you've said at least for the first term let's call it the first term of a a

third force incoming, right? Um I prefer to have a short list. Um as I said, I mentioned five. You know, and I've I've wrote it down. I said number one, term limit. Okay. We need a term limit. We uh okay, we have had been we've been had now, right?

Yeah, we've been had. We need a term limit. Because why? If I as an MP or uh and I move up even I move up at the leadership level, right? You must be able to accomplish what you want to accomplish within less than 10 years. Okay, if you can't do that, then you're useless. All right? And the second part about that is you must have a system that you promote that have a succession plan. Um And and you don't want to have yourself entrenched in your in in that position. It is to me fundamental for good governance, right? So I think for me one you must have a term limit for prime minister, chief

ministers, uh or uh Menteri Besar, you know, uh and the other part to this is actually I think we should abolish pensions for uh MPs and assemblymen. Which was recently done in Sri Lanka. Yeah. Of all places, yeah.

Correct. Sri Lanka, the new prime minister has abolished Yeah. pensions for members of parliament. Yeah. So, you don't want people to hang on to that job Yeah. uh for life or actually can benefit for the rest of their life. This is a national service. If you want to do national service, you don't need to have pension. We also need term limits for the chief ministers and the Menteri Besar. Yeah. Yeah. So, this is one. That's the first one I thought about that actually the rakyat must insist. Um the other one that I agree with you, number two is abol- we should abolish

the Sedition Act. Let me just start with just say I'm I'm going to agree to abolish the Sedition Sedition Act, right? Um that at least allows for freedom of speech.

important. Yeah. Third thing I look at it is the you need to pledge towards affirmative action only for needs basis. There should not be any affirmative action based on race and religion. I think we need to slowly if not if you ask me, then it's me. I I I want it abolished immediately. Because I don't think um it helps our uh in our economic uh our our economic progress as a nation and also as a people. Uh fourth, I agree with you. Math and science I think we should be in English. It actually then um put uh the pressure on everything in the education system.

You must perform. You must deliver it in English and you must have better performance in math and sciences. And lastly, I look at it very simple because to me all your problem GLC, GLIC, all these allocation of capital, right? You need to have the government be more efficient. So, I said, what's the best way? Cut taxes. I want to see uh people incoming to pledge to cut at least for a start first term 5% for every level. You know? Uh because the cascading effect of that requires to you to belt tightening requires to be more efficient, deregulate

the government. Yeah. Right? So, if you ask me, I I almost want to say every MP we want to show you this are you going to you sign or not? Okay, everyone who wants to go to this. If I may if I may add to this you know,

I hope the politicians are listening to our discussion because they are not thinking in what we are saying. They don't seem to realize Well, they they realize that they're losing. They cannot win anymore. But to fix their their problem that they are losing elections, they're going about it the wrong way. Instead of making policy changes, the type of policy changes that we are suggesting uh because I honestly believe if the politicians take up the points that we are saying abolish the Sedition Act, things like this uh I'm positive the votes will swing in their favor.

That's how they win elections, but they don't seem to understand. Instead recently uh we heard the story about one of our political parties, a Malay based party. They organized a meeting with seven other Malay based parties including some parties whom we have not even heard of uh So, they are they are they are organizing a sort of a Malay only uh political coalition uh And then we we heard recently there was some um well, you know, uh controversial news or well, I would I would call it just news uh it's not controversial really. That last December about 3 months back

the again the some Malay political parties had a secret meeting in Bangkok. The Bangkok summit, you know. Uh so again uh why why are they doing all this because to them that's the only way to secure their future and and their their uh I would to secure their power, their position or to secure their their seats in parliament or whatever or in your in government or form the government by forming coalitions with all these various other parties, none of whom they know will win a majority. They're not going to win a majority. So, let's meet in Bangkok. Let's meet the seven parties

and all that talk about how we can secure our position as uh the power brokers or in power uh knowing that we're not going to be able to win a simple majority. That's the thinking they've adopted now. We're not going to win simple majority anymore. So, let's talk with who we can team up with because they don't intend to make the changes that we are suggesting. They're not confident that if they make the changes that we are talking about they do not need to form these coalitions. They will win simple majorities or better. Because the people read the reason why people are not

voting for them anymore and giving them a solid victory or simple majority because they're not delivering what the people need. They don't seem to understand that to to to them it's okay. Yeah. Even if you don't deliver, it's all right. Let's meet in Bangkok. Let's meet here. Let's meet there. Let's form this coalition, that coalition. As long as we cover the 112 seats in parliament, we can form the government. That's it. And then we remain in power and we can give it to the people for another 5 years. That's how they're thinking. To me, the easiest option now for these

political parties I really hope they're listening uh just go down to the people. Ask them, what can I do for you? And these things that we're talking about have been outstanding in this country for the last decades, you know, all these things we're talking about. Sedition Act, abolish it. Just get it done. This is the thing. They don't seem to understand

not just only don't seem to understand. I think for them is a Or maybe they understand too much. Yeah. For them is a question of surviving the way they have always survived. Okay? Uh in evolutionary biology, all right? Um it's a question of just how to survive. Okay, they are not uh going to take that risk. They know this is what has worked for them for a long time. And this it's what they're familiar with.

Right. This political system is going to be unchanging um until and unless the people start bringing in new faces and new blood that is going to hold the manifesto and say this is what we want. And then when they want to form coalition, they have to talk to all these uh new bloods. Uh whether you know, it's three or four uh you know, or five or 10. I can tell you one thing that will happen if you the way it's just like business, right? In business, you don't go and say I want to have a 30% market share. I want to be the market leader straight away in my first 2 years. No.

You say if I'm going to that new business, if I can grab 2% market share or 5% market share, then the next the next phase I'm go- the growth uh is actually logarithmic. You don't see growth to actually be uh like that, you know? Growth is going like that. You know? So, to me um I want to see who will sign this so-called maybe we call it manifesto rakyat, you know? Who among the people uh within the within the current politics are willing to sign such a manifesto. Not their political party manifesto. They they So, in fact the existing political parties, they can be the third force.

If they realize that if they can promise these changes and deliver what people want Yeah. they it is actually they are the third force. Mhm. They become the agents of change which has not been done in this country for so many years. You know, they since late 90s this people wanted to reform the country. Now they are in power, nothing has changed. So because they have not Well, they have not delivered on what they promised. And all the things that they promised last time is what we were talking we are talking about now.

We've been talking about these issues for for ages. Yeah, probably 20 years. So if they if the political parties themselves can internalize what we're discussing today which is which is a stale issue in Malaysia it's called basi. It's a stale issue and they deliver on this and then they become the third force and they win votes. You know, I I mean I'm looking at it in in very simple terms, right? Um What is DAP waiting for? You have not delivered anything that you have promised in your manifesto. Pull out of government. It's a very big let down. To me DAP is a big let down. The I was I

personally although I I used to belong to UMNO. But but they were promising a lot of change and they were in the opposition for decades. They only came into power in 2018. Before that of course they won Penang but that's a state and Selangor under the Pakatan. But they came into power and in Putrajaya in 2018 and then they to 2020 they lost it and 2022 they have come back. They have performed very dismally, very very poor. None of the major reforms that they were talking about in the previous decades have been achieved have been delivered. The the highway toll concessions is one of them.

Everybody was talking about this and saying that we need to do something about the highway concessions toll concessions the tolls that we pay. Nothing has been done you know on the freedom of speech. I think things have become a bit more

It's it's actually become worse. other way. It's gone the other way. Where are your promises to free up freedom of speech, abolish the Sedition Act and all those other things the MCMCA. What happened to the DAP? So they have not delivered bottom line. So as a result of which they lost 8-0 in Sabah. Although it's a state election but you know the the Chinese electorate in the country the whole country they are on the same wavelength. If the Sabah Chinese did not like the DAP in Sabah you can rest assured Chinese on the peninsula also are not very happy with them because they have not delivered.

Why can't they see this? So I mean to me this is a major this is another let down. So you know we waited you know the DAP they first ran in the elections 1969. Because Singapore left the federation in 1965 isn't it? Yeah, after 65 the first elections was 1969. From 69 they waited until 2018 they finally made it to power in Putrajaya and they failed. To me they have failed. It's a total let down. So now there's nothing great to shout about the DAP. No big deal. We waited for you to come into power from 1969 to 2018 it's a long time 40 over years 50 over years and today you're in power

but what have you done? So I think they have had their chance and they they it. They squandered like wasted the opportunity. I I I mean I don't I don't give much hope for PKR because to me that's in spite of you saying multiracial it's a it's the UMNO DNA over there. So that's another thing that you know I just put aside. That's why people start asking why we saying about the AP is because they've been in opposition they've been complaining about all these but they get into power it doesn't get done. So there's no change in the country many things are the same and then we are learning.

You know like if it's a nice sunny day we have a we have a nice day. If it rains the next day then we get wet that kind of situation you know. We are like thrown to the wind the the phrase is we are at the mercy of our surroundings. We are not able to really determine our our course of action and our future in a predictable manner. You know the question they ask are you what doing are you do you feel that you have you have you're in a better situation now than you were five years ago which in the US they always ask and what do you expect in the next you know years ahead in the immediate future

and people will say something. They don't ask the question here because it cannot be answered. No they will only the politicians the politicians over here will will always say you're always better than before you know and you have to accept that. So this is the problem. Yeah. I I I think that we've come to a point where you ask me I think talking about I mean the the third force again to me is a is a combination of both needing to happen. A solid manifesto that that says you know I'm going to advocate for this and if I'm going to join a coalition all right then they must deliver me

this. If I don't deliver me this I pull out from the coalition. And and as I said earlier in Malaysia at this point in time in our history yeah the reforms the changes that we need to do are much easier because it is not things that you actually have to go out and create new. It is abolishing some bad habits that we have acquired over the last decades getting rid of them. The the strictures on the economy the overregulation the GLC presence and stuff like that the reforming the the laws Sedition Act the MCMCA these are all removing obstacles. That means you don't have to think too

much about let's create something greenfield from scratch you know we have to build something new. That takes a lot of effort a lot of thinking which maybe the politicians find even more difficult to to deliver but the easiest thing now in this country is remove obstacles abolish certain laws change the economic system. I mean abolish just take them out liberalize you know the education thing on on maths and science ask the people do a referendum so easy this is to me low hanging fruit. You don't have to build a skyscrapers just remove obstacles and abolish all

these things that has shackled us and held us back. Just get rid of these things. So low hanging fruit easy. They don't want to do it. Yeah. I I don't think I mean I I I don't want to be a party pooper but I I I really don't think that the current the current system as we see it right which is which is held by the these political parties for the last whether they were in opposition for since the existence of this country okay whether they are in opposition or they are in they are in government you know until the people wake them up by actually kicking people out and putting

new people in that is willing to say this are my manifesto to the rakyat I'm going to work to deliver this and you want to form government and you want me included I want to see this happen. All right? So until you have that I don't think things will change. So on on that note Syed I think we'll uh you want to have some final thoughts?

Yeah that's about it but the third force to to to wrap it up the third force can be can be individuals can be movement can be a new political party or it can be the existing politicians who internalize and accept a list of to do things which must be delivered to the people. So whoever is first across the finishing line and delivers you know this list of things that must that needs to be done in this country that is long overdue they will be the real agents of change which will get the votes. I'm positive it will get the votes. Well on that note I think time to rethink for us voters how we

want to or who we are capable to actually really work for us. Thank you ladies and gentlemen. See you again. Thank you.