The 2 Amigos in Custody. Lets Just Story and Chill

You can't worry, you can't feel anxiety because um you have to deal with the situation. That's all I see, you know. That's that's my crisis management mindset. Yeah. Well, you can't deal with you can't you said you can't get anxiety. Yeah. Right. Um I can't say the same, bro. I definitely I felt some of it, man. Really? If I'm Yeah, of course, bro. I'm I'm a I'm a human, bro. And I mean when when they so you had the this is all stuff that we've already said. Okay. When you had the opportunity to set the appointment the following week, right? Yes. When you came to my house straight away, right?

You knew that you coming to my house straight away means there was a chance that you're not going to just go to the station next week. That you will probably have to come to the station. No. Absolutely. When actually you knew that, right? Of course. Yeah. The minute I I was going to go there. Yeah. Uh to your place, that's uh basically, you know, I mean, that's basically to me it's already a given. Yeah. Yeah. So, I b I basically texted my wife and said that, you know, I'm going to go and pick up uh city for uh you know, for some talks. I didn't want to tell her

anything at all, you know. And uh and and and and after that, you know, we just uh we just I just pick up city because uh I needed her to be there uh for the two of us. Um and and and and yeah, it was uh it was fit accomply uh as far as I was concerned that's going to happen already. So your mind is already So why do you come? Let's go, guys. Hi, welcome back to the Gutshot podcast. I'm S and right with me today we've got Bryog my uh let's get it podcast okay and my fellow inmate when we were detained together. Yeah I guess we are detainment buddies. Yes. Yeah. What's up guys? I'm Brian Kong,

host of the Let's Get It Podcast. Um Chamso, thank you so much for inviting me to this uh podcast. It's very it's been very controversial podcast. No. How controversial do you think it is? I I don't know, bro. I don't know. I never set out set up set out to be controversial. I just set out to be myself and to talk about issues uh and and matters that I like, you know. It's uh so as far as I'm concerned, it goes with whichever flow it goes, right? Yeah. We do what we like. Well, hanging out with you in person, uh, yeah, I can tell, man. It is what it is. I think some people they they they

see how you are and they think like sort of a you're playing a character. Uh-huh. I don't get that vibe when I'm hanging with you. Uhhuh. And when I say hanging, I mean we are just, right? Yeah. We're not doing anything. Uh, there's no agenda or whatever. But yeah, man. Maybe at most you know how to play it out in front play it up in front of the camera because I think in general you are a theatrical person. Well I I I'm just what I am. Yeah. I I I don't I don't know how to behave any differently. What you see is what you get. I I I don't know what else to say.

So has anyone um I think by now a lot of people know you you're good by this with City Kasim, right? Yeah. So there's Do people tell you that you guys are alike? Oh, all the time. Yeah, because because you are, man. Something. Okay. Something that we're going to have a leotard session today. You see, I've got no jacket today as usual, right? And Brian was telling me he would he thought everybody was so proper that comes here at Gshot that he's wearing a colored t-shirt today. Yeah. If you if you guys watch my podcast, right, anyone um listening now, I'm usually just going to wear a t-shirt

and I purposely put this on actually because I thought like when I see Gutshot uh all the guests, right, everyone gets the memo. Yeah. In a um it's usually like a battle of who has the nicest suit like that. So yeah, often Shamso is the better dress. Oh my god. No, I something cuz I was talking about City Kasim, right? Yeah. I guess already we're going to bring this would be eventually what we would be talking about. Well, yeah. But when I got into the car, um I guess we just say first detained. Yeah, we were detained together by by the cops. Yeah. So, um yes, we were detained by the cops

from my place. We got into the we got into your car. My car? Yes. With city. Um police wanted me to go with them but like uh we we got them to agree okay I'll follow Shamso and City together to the station right IPD client in the car right I think 5 minutes in or 10 minutes I can't remember city took out her phone and she's like you know what we should live stream this right now and then we need to tell everyone what's happening and she took out the live stream I thought it would be like uh for people that watched it I thought it would be like you know, just a couple of billions like that. And

you know, City, if you watch her channel, right, she goes off and her voice is really loud. It's uh kind of something like yours, but she's like, it seems like she's screaming, you know? Yeah. And it went on. She was just renting and renting. It was 30 minutes and it didn't stop. It's just 30 minutes of renting and and I and I felt like, oh my god, I'm I'm just exhausted during this, bro. Yeah. Well, I mean, uh I think u I think uh uh I I can't even recall to because to me uh the whole time we were in there, it was uh it was quite um uh it's just a matter of fact, you know, and I

just follow the flow, you know, and then and we got to the and until we got to the station and all that and and went through uh all the standard procedures, right? Uh and I don't know. Yeah, I guess just what what was what were you feeling of? I I don't know. My mind is just simply um about just taking it one step at a time, you know, and that has always been me, you know. I I don't think beyond that. Um and you know u so you you you you can't worry, you can't feel anxiety because um you have to deal with the situation. That's all I see, you know. That's that's my crisis management mindset.

Yeah. Well, you can't deal with you can't you said you can't get anxiety. Yeah. Right. Um I can't say the same now, bro. I definitely I felt some of it, man. Really? If I'm Yeah, of course, bro. I'm I'm a I'm a human, bro. And I mean, when when they So, you had the This is all stuff that we've already said. Okay. When you had the opportunity to set the appointment the following week, right? Yes. When you came to my house straight away, right, you knew that you coming to my house straight away means there was a chance that you're not going to just go to the station next week. That you will

probably have to come to the station. No, absolutely. When actually knew that, right? Of course. The the minute I uh I was going to go there. Yeah. Uh to my place to your place that's uh basically, you know, I mean that's basically to me it's already a given. Yeah. Yeah. So I b I basically texted my wife and said that you know I'm going to go and pick up uh city for uh you know for some talks. I didn't want to tell her anything at all you know and uh and and and and after that you know we just uh we just I just pick up city because uh I needed her to be there uh for the two of us. Um and

and and and yeah it was uh it was fate accomply uh as far as I was concerned that's going to happen already. So your mind is already so why do you call it's a it's just second nature dude you're a young man you're a I'm sorry you know sometimes I call people you know you're a young kid. Did you feel like you got me in trouble? Honestly, I I'll tell you something. Okay. Uh uh it's not a qu that doesn't cross my mind at all. It's very simple with me. My friend is in trouble. Yeah. Okay. And he sounds like he you know I know how you are. You s you know you gauge how a person is even after you

know we had what an 2hour conversation uh on your podcast. Yeah. Right. Let me we chat. Yeah, but you know you get you get a sense of somebody okay within you size up somebody within 10 to 15 minutes you know that's the that is the maximum I think I can already size up people right so I mean uh so I I I already know who you are how you are and I know as a young kid sorry yeah I used the word kid po because I'm young I'm for people watching right I think maybe they can tell with their own eyes I'm I'm 30, bro. Yeah. So, basically, I'm double your age, you know. And no, I just want to

clarify. I'm not I don't blame you, bro, because it's very obvious. I invited you to the podcast or so. There's no there's no I don't I never looked at it that way also. Yeah. No, I look at it as very simple. It has always been in my nature. Yeah, when a fan is in trouble and I know I'm the guy who can be the shield and I can protect him or her, I will do it, you know. Um, and I felt actually I told I told I told the inspector when I was making the arrangement for uh uh for a later meeting, I said I said to the inspector, why do we we have to uh involve Brian? You asked him also.

Yeah. I said, please don't because uh I'm the one speaking, right? He's asking question. I'm the one speaking. And I said, you know on these kind of matters. Yeah, that was how I felt. So I told him so. Yeah. Because also I told him so also um I guess the matters that we think they they were um that they got us for I guess was also talking about your race that Yeah. Well, as far as I look at it, I think, you know, I mean, it is what it is. I've already addressed it in my uh podcast, right? So, I'm not going to address uh I mean, the reasoning for that or whatever, but it's basically,

you know, you're arresting people for having a podcast and talking, which is our freedom, right? I have my own opinion. I have my own experiences, right? So, you know, I mean, is that what the country has come to? We're becoming a police state. Give me a break. Right? And uh to me actually when they when you call me up it's very simple. It's very second nature to me. I'm always the night with the wine. I'm always carrying Excalibur, you know. Uh yeah, I I'm I'm not going to lie, bro. When I saw you come in and city barin and um she was going off on um obviously

she's not happy with the police, right? I felt like it was a movie, bro. And and you know, I say that because um maybe maybe Malay uh Malaysian people have seen City when she's gone on the news and all and she's like that shouting and all. Yeah, that was what I was I was seeing and I I did feel a bit safer, right? Good. Yeah. When when she came and Yeah, of course. Thanks to you, bro. Um interesting experience in detainment. Yeah, we we talked a lot, man. We talk a lot. Yeah. We were we were next to each other for quite a while. Um handcuffed. Yeah. Uh I think we can say that of course.

Well, let's put it this way. I think one of the things why we talk a lot actually uh to pass time. To pass time. Yeah. And to be very frank, uh I was trying to get your head out of uh the situation we were in, you know, and I was telling you old stories of mine, you know. Yeah. Uh of of of when I was younger. I was telling you stories when I was in Shell. I was telling you stories when I started business and whatnot. You see, you are very successful. Uh well, very successful. Um, you have a very successful uh history in corporate, of course, oil and gas.

It's crazy that I had you on my podcast. Uhhuh. And I barely knew anything about that. Right. Yeah. And it's it's funny that when we we were in the detainment and then you were sharing all this stuff and I'm thinking like this is the this is the things that I should have known already before getting you but uh on on the podcast. But uh I guess those were more personal and more detailed experiences and yeah some of them I would share uh in public. Yeah not now. No I mean I'm talking about just I mean the the the some of the detailed experiences that I was telling you right

is it's it's quite personal. Yeah. Yeah. No I mean bro you when you share stories right um you made it you make it entertaining. At first I couldn't really uh catch on understand. And then uh after a while I got into it. It became like a movie like that. And then remember we we talked a little bit. I say like hey boo you know one day maybe you can you you're going to make this into a movie. Yeah. And then and then you say yeah one day one day you might actually do a book about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I one of the funniest experience uh funniest moments. Okay. Can you remember?

I I can't I I don't Oh my god. So many funny experiences. No, the funniest moments in the when we were in detained. Okay. Okay. So the next morning we went to the court. Yes. Right. So they um to see how long they were going to remand us for. Right. So we got on the black maria. What is the black maria? I mean that lorry with where they bring detaines inside uh to to to the to the court and all that. You know we were at the back of the lorry. Why? Why? Why you call it the black? Ah, that's that's what they nickname it. Really? Yeah. That's why people nickname the the

police truck that that bring detaines. Black Maras. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Usually I um you would see even on the highways or what um like illegal immigrants or whatever they are here. Yeah. So when we were in court the next morning uh sat down with all the other detaininees. Detaines. Yeah. At one point we were actually handcuffed with literally I think 30 of them. Yeah. All together. Sometimes it was six of us. Sometimes it was me and Jean. So but when we were in the So we we were detained for a bit and then we came to the court the court and we sat down. Yeah.

This is the next morning early in the morning and city came up to us. Right. And another lawyer of us Susanna. Susanna. Yeah. Another lawyer. Shout out Susanna. Thank you so much for helping um our case. And they were briefing us on what they going to talk about. This is the defense I'm going to use. Blah blah blah like that. So after they briefed us, then City walked away. Uhhuh. And then she turned back. Uhhuh. And she said and she said she came in close to me and you and she said, "You guys smell like shit." And I dude and I looked at Shamsu. I'm like, "Yeah, she's right."

I mean, how do I know how we smell because smelling ourselves? No, but we can't smell ourselves, but we you you know, like you're sweaty from the night before. There's no showering or whatever. So, I know that damn this if city says that I'm like, "Yeah, okay." Yeah. It must have been a terrible false. Yeah. But you know what? I find it actually very interesting actually when we were in the black body, right? And they start bringing the I don't know why I keep calling it that. It was this truck, you know, huge truck, you know, and they bring all this detainy. I think

probably they were more there were probably 30 at least others. So, right. So, it started with from the station there was three of us. Yeah. Okay. The first one was um um this I think somebody who's drunk. Yeah. A young a young uh Yeah. Let's not go into that. It doesn't matter. Okay. Someone someone that was Yeah. day. the the the thing I want to get is actually the um you were you have such empathy for people. That's that's what I I I figured out because you know your you were commenting to me that you know those guys that were in there was uh you know were practic I mean were were

hardcore. It looks very hardcore to to us anyway and they were looking at us. what is these two guys who look pretty decent sitting in that, you know, among them, you know. So, and he and you said this to me and say, you know, this guy's got no chance. Yeah. Yeah. So, bro, when um in the Black Maria at first just three of us and then 30 people came. Yeah. Yeah. About that. Yeah. And they stared at us. Yeah. Okay. We both stood out like a sore thumb. Yeah. I you can take this out loud if you want. I said I was the only Chinese person there. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You uh I don't know why you stood

out. Um you was pretty much same skin color. Okay. Cuz you were dressed No, I was dressed very well. Yes. You were dressed very well wearing glasses. Okay. And after like in the in the Black Maria with them for I'm using Black Maria now. after we were in the black maria with them for like 10 minutes and or longer then me and you we're just next to each other cuz we can't really go far next to each other and I just thought like man bro this you I've had Shamir on the podcast so Shamir is a crime prevent he was on mine as well yes he he was on your podcast and when

he does my podcast right I often find it very fascinating when he tell me stories about he has visited um prisons And as part of his uh research, he would uh get the organ set up the prison uh sorry get the prison guards to set up a meeting in like a isolated room talk prisoners information know how they do their crimes research purposes and I found that very interesting. I always ask him in details, you know, what they like and stuff like that. And something he told me that was crazy that it didn't cross my mind was a lot of these people, you know, they make a decision on that

day. You rob someone or you don't rob someone. You don't rob someone, you'll starve. You'll be hungry. You rob someone, you might risk going to prison for your crime. In prison, who knows? Maybe that person never had proper shelter. He never had proper food in Yeah, proper food as well. And you get you do get that in prison. I I mean whether it's proper or not, it's food and shelter. And so what I'm trying to say is the people that were with were with us, right? Yeah. It was very obvious that they were basically the type that was being talked about by Sham by Shame.

No, no. This this ain't their first rodeo. Yeah. They they that was not their first rodeo. They were bugging you trying to find out why we were in them with them. I mean, can I can I be um I'll tell you exactly what they said. The a couple of them they not couple one specific guy came up to me and he looked at me and said, "You India, Eugina, you Mallayu." And he repeated that about three four times. And the reason why he said that is probably because he's not in a proper state of mind. Yeah. Who knows what type of substances he was on or maybe that was the reason why he

was in that uh uh lock up with I mean being with us. Who knows? And when you when you see stuff like that, right? Yeah. You think about the position that person is in whether or not he was there just maybe a month ago. Yeah. Two months ago he was there again. Yeah. Very much so. when we were in the court and the the judge was telling them like okay you are going to be reminded for 2 weeks 7 days something like that you couldn't see any expressions on their faces because it seems almost as if they were something that they were numb to you know and then you can't help but when I

was next to you I sit down there and then you can't help but think about the roll of the dice thing And I think this is something that I I definitely realized this um a long time ago and it's like what makes you think right if if you are someone that's going to um pass judgment on people who are who are in a situation like that or how or what they did to get them into that situation. You ask a very simple question. If you were in that person's shoes, right, what makes you think you would do anything different at all? That that's basically uh what was that phrase? Um if

uh what do you call I forgot what's that phrase? Quite like that phrase where you know is that it's like you know it's just the roll of the dice but there's a phrase I forgot about it. Okay, never mind. Go on. Honestly, right? someone like me. Yeah. Probably yourself also. We are so removed from literally witnessing um the life this kind of life. Yeah. Yeah. The lives of people um of of of that situation. Yeah. I'm not trying to suddenly I'm not here trying to be a activist or trying to suddenly talk about um fight fight fight for the rights of all these people

and all but but this it was a real experience that at that moment right at that time when I felt powerless helpless or Yeah. You you think a lot like man. Yeah. No, it's uh I well it was very for me actually when you mentioned me that in that moment okay because my mindset was very simple. my mindset when I'm in crisis, I get very calm, you know. I get very very calm, you know, and uh u and my I'm focused on the u next step. What's the next step? What's the next step? Where do we go? You know, I I'm not even thinking what can happen. I'm just going what's the next step? you

know, um, and the biggest concern I had was for you. Seriously speaking, because those guys were bugging you, you know, because I was ignoring everything, right? And you are the you're the young guy and they know how to pick on the one most vulnerable. That's the way I get that's the way I see it, right? I was more worried about you. And honestly, if you don't Yeah, they were calling my name. I don't know how they they heard overheard my Yeah. like Brian, Brian, Brian room. And then you know like if you ignore it, right, the more they No, I I I and I kept telling you, ignore

it. Just don't don't engage. Let's just keep on talking to each other. Finish. I have never been a confrontational person. So I so I would always avoid situations like that. Yeah. And these people right were um I guess also while we're there a little bit of analyzing their their psyche and all they're calm for the most part and they're very like like that very laughing making jokes with uh the other detaininees but they are their fuse is very very short and we witnessed that. Yeah. Yeah. They can be chill and lip up and then suddenly burst out and an altercation

can just start at any moment. Yeah. And it shows that you know if you've got a very short fuse like that right you're there's a lot of in your life that is super stressful for them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh I think you know I and then when we uh we came out or not we came out even that morning when we were at the IPD uh you know my biggest concern was actually telling uh pane uh your mom cuz your mom seems was very very worried and she was like you know and I was like you know I'll I'll look after you. I was like you know I mean that's the that's the best I can do. Yeah, because I guess

also you're a father is the second, right? Yeah. Um I mean it's a lot of lot of questions even from my my parents they were thinking like so what happens when you once I mean after came out do you still carry on doing the podcast is it a risk okay and I felt like I don't know how to change anything because I don't know what I did I was I I mean I feel like there's I feel like oh I had to change something cuz I don't want to be in that position again. But what was it in the first place, you know, and I don't know. No, I mean, you look at the situation we have, right? Here we are. Here we are

talking. Yeah. And uh you get uh you get picked up for that and you have uh a prime minister that that puts in for uh uh someone, you know, that stole billions from the Rayat. you know, and you submit for a pardon. I mean, look at the ridiculousness if if it was not uh that bad a comparison, right? And I made the comparison in my episode. I said there was a 22 year old guy in Surona that got, you know, that got two years for two packet of Milo. Okay. This country has gone really down the drain as far as I'm concerned. All right, we are in a situation this is

worse than before the so-cal reform win. So, um our current uh prime minister himself, he got a full pardon as well, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. So, I actually forgot about that. Uh-huh. And then um after realizing that I think oh maybe that's why he's also a bit holding back on he can't really say too much on he can't really slam the the pardon or whatever. First of all it's his government. Um and also no you have to submit it. You have to submit what you have to submit for the pardon. You have I mean every people you know they there t there are tens of thousands of prisoners.

Okay. And you know how many are they going to look at in one day if there's any pardon application from anybody right what makes you stand out why should it be this person right so to me you know uh that that makes no difference whatsoever what is a it's a principal stand that you must have then there is this question and um how can you stand up and say that you are uh it doesn't affect your uh your standing as far as battling corruption. Yeah, that was a that is such an oxymoron statement. I don't know man like we the rockyard. Yeah. And I believe on either side when it

comes to I I believe really left or right on either side when it comes to this corruption thing we both we all share the same views left or right it's a very simple is stealing. Yeah. Right. But also it's like we're getting conditioned, you know, to just accept it. That is a it's a way of life, bro. For example, you see me, I'm just saying talking about this thing right now. And I also feel like should I be mindful? But like mindful of what? Yeah. Of saying things. This is this is basically why they do the things that they do like what when they detain people like us, right?

Because they don't want to be talking. you know it's effective. Absolutely. I guess right um this is what happened in um um in in communist countries. Yeah. Yeah. You know so uh it's uh many many uh regimes in history they will carry out uh what do you call this the you you imprison detain or punish the people speak out like that. It is a common thing. Yeah. Um there is this there is this question I guess that I can bring up now which is do you and I think maybe I know the answer your answer. Do you think that there should be a special time or place for people

um of a certain position to not be dealt with the same way legally as compared to the rats regular regular citizens because when I when I listen to to podcasts and these are political commentators sometimes politicians they are podcasts I can't remember who they often talk about it in that sense which is like, oh yeah, but then you know I do feel like someone who has served this long especially in uh as a PM blah blah blah they might uh maybe you know we have to we can make make uh we can make some concession. Yes. Yeah. Stuff like that. No such thing. No such thing. They are

they also citizens right? when you are uh the the same legal legally there's nothing right that says that no none I don't think so I I I'm I'm not sure none none none so what's going you know yeah so that's why I went off you know because for me like uh you know I've set I've sat on uh uh public company boards right and I've tended resignation when I disagree on a matter of principle I've done that okay um and I did that one time uh absolutely immediate uh maybe you don't want to give too much details but you can share a bit about the situation well yeah what were you

is in principle there's one that I was doing um restructuring for the second one I was doing restructuring for right and uh when I've cleaned it up uh and we were getting the money to come in to uh you know as a rescue plan. Okay. And this is a bunny private uh private money. Um when it was uh not accepted by the uh by the MD or CEO um I uh just uh tendered my resignation immediately after that. Immediately because why? uh that because that was not the principle that um um that that that I came in. My principle is to clean it proper and to continue cleaning it up. We have to pump

in money and not just pump in money. Okay? The people who pump in money will want to have some changes. So if those changes does not come through because uh you refuse to lose control, right? Um I tender by resignation. So, and that was what you know 40,000 a month. That's not the point. You wanted me to stay on. Did you have any like existing offers from another role? No, no, no. I don't know. I mean, this is uh No, no such thing. Okay. No such thing. Um and uh that best couple of years ago uh a few uh you know the last board post uh which uh I did the restructuring for uh when I was uh

group MD for that company uh yeah I just had a farewell uh uh drinks with them yes last night. So anyway the so there there are many circumstances but when the when in principle that's why I said you know in principle if DAP truly disagree with the uh with the arrest your representative on the me on the pardon board should tenderle the resignation there and then you know don't make all this uh this kullet you know of having an emergency meeting come on man I know how things are You would know that the submission would have gone through uh a secretariat before that. You would have discussed

that already. You know, way before. Yeah. You know, I I mean Anthony Luke did say that he would resign and he did. He offered I don't know. It has not been confirmed as of today. It has not been confirmed. Yeah, he did mention this a long time ago and I I you know I I don't want to say anything more than what I have said. Okay, I I've made my point very clear in the video. Okay, can we uh can I then can we I I'm not going to lie. I find um this politics or one of the appeal um to me not only because um it is very much interfering with your lives but I'm not

going to lie the the drama to it is also entertaining. Do you think that Najib is going to play a role in the next elections? I don't know. I'm you know I I I I kept telling you the other uh when we were in detention I kept telling you this. I never care about what the other party is going to do or the other person is going to do. I care about what I'm going to do. The same with the way I approach business. Okay. The way I approach business is actually I mean I can't be concerned about what the comp I I would have a certain idea of what my competition is doing. Okay. But I have to formulate my

strategy and my action based on what I want to do. Yeah. So, right. So it it's I really don't care. So because you brought this up and you've mentioned this uh also another elephant in the room. Yeah, we are conversation. Yeah. Al also another elephant in the room that I'll tell you the an elephant that a lot of your gutshot supporters, fans or people who I guess just know who you are. Maybe they're not your fans. They don't dislike you. Uh they want to know um when when are you going to put your hand in dur? Wow. Wow. Yeah. You want to go there? You brought it up.

Yeah. You said you said, man, I I don't think about the other party. I think about what I'm going to do, which uh let's put it this way. Let's let's let's get let's get because I mean we are friends. Um, and you see I'm I'm uh we we've hung out and all. Yeah. You so haven't told me everything about all this and I genuinely want to know. That's why I'm asking you now on your podcast and other people can hear too. Well, here here it goes. Actually to me I think the country needs saving right the question that am I willing to u uh give up certain uh anonymity even now

right when I did the when even now when I do the when I started the podcast I already realized that oops um I've lost my low profile uh uh life that I quite enjoy you know um and it only accelerates the deeper you go, right? Yeah. So, the podcasting itself had already once I mean even before the detention, it was already getting to that popularity where people are recognizing me and coming to me on the street or when I'm sitting and having dinner, right? Um, so now we go to another level. Do I want to put my head into the into the ring, so to speak? Okay. Yeah. Um and the question is not that

difficult to answer you know uh because I think we are in dire need of uh uh capable people that uh that has integrity uh that has no baggage uh of the current political DNA cuz you look at what we have today whether they in government or they in opposition they've been in politics you know for 30 40 years. Yeah. Yeah. Even the young ones started out if the political party right. Um this what the country needs actually is people that are new faces that actually has built a career outside um especially the private sector. That's my feeling. You know why? because um I I

was looking at our other but I don't I mean Victor Tan's uh uh video yeah Victor Victor's video I mean about uh the tokat culture as he call it right so I believe that we need persons who does not come up from the top culture now the top is coming up in this podcast also right so as far as I look at it right Um this is what the country needs. The country needs a fresh look at things. It it needs an overhaul really. You know like it's like a car that has been wrecked and the only way you can do because you can't buy another car and change it. A a country you cannot buy and and and change.

Build it up. You have to. So what do you do with an old rack in the in the garage? Uhhuh. Right. Or you take it from a garage sale, you know, if if you were in the US studying, you you would know this. You can buy a car at a garage sale. Okay. In fact, I bought my first car for $400 a Toyota Corolla. Okay. And that car was a heap of junk. I'm not joking. $400. What do you expect? Yeah. Yeah. What do you expect? Right. But did did it do the it do the trick? It did the trick. I did the you know, but you got to learn how to fix it, right? So, you know, and and taking it to the mechanic actually

cost a lot more. So, you learn how to tinker with uh with cars and those days, you know, you still have carburetors and whatnot you can tinker with, right? So, this is what we have as a country, you know. So, you need somebody who can tinker with the whole ecosystem. understand it that you know and that only comes from actually years decade of experience in your life and career right and especially I if you ask me today I say you need a businessman to lead the change so there's no entry level in uh politics right no no yeah because we don't have a culture of serving at local council

where you can run uh you can run uh at local council elections you know so that become an entry level in America for example those are entry level in UK those are entry level politics right so you learn to serve the people at that lower level can can you explain about that so it's it's actually uh is it a must to do no it's not really it's not but often that is the pathway okay for young people to get involved in in so-called uh uh national service. Yeah. You know, um or civil service, you know, not not civil service in the stance of bureauc bureaucrat bureaucratic, but

basically going up for election for for council, you know, for for local councils and that what not. That's that's how they go up, right? But in our case, because our parliamentary system is such um you really need people with solid experience that has built business. If you ask me, if you want to find a leader, you know, that understand that this is the ecosystem that need to change from education, from bis uh our our economics, from administrative because that's what you do as a businessman uh when you started out cuz you're starting with nothing, you know, and

then you are you are putting your capital there and you're risking your your your your livelihood and your savings. Okay. So that kind of greed, that kind of understanding of the whole ecosystem is completely lacking. Number one. Number two, we need people with integrity. You know the problem with the political system is that by the time they get uph they've gone through this whole uh this this this whole process that actually uh shall I say corrupts the mind and your own integrity corrupts I mean the people inside inside right so I come from a situation where actually you know I uh I'm

practically retired effectively apart from you know one or two projects I'm looking at you know and and most of those I'm looking at is not inside the country I don't really care about the business in Malaysia uh per se anymore cuz I've done that been there done that you know it's it's not exciting right but the podcast has actually got me to see all these things in much more in in much more visceral situation you know yeah It it also um allows you to pay more attention. Yeah. Other other podcasts talking about uh uh giving their opinions on the issues or whatever. Yeah.

I basically restructured two companies and I've always said to people that the government is the ultimate form of a corporation. Okay. Your shareholders are your citizens, right? your board member is actually your cabinet. So you if you um if you want a CEO of a of a corporation that is that huge that actually can you know can murder you really you know I mean we have penalties that uh call for hanging. So this corporation that we call the government can actually kill you right. So you want the at the at the very top people who are you know even at cabinet level

all right that are capable to actually make this corporation run well and you can only get that if you have got the life experience yeah of building things. I I I don't think many people will would disagree with that where coming from the private se sector showing uh proof of success, years of experience and all is going to help out uh in qualifying you to be a politician. No, no, no, no. I hate that word. Sorry, sorry. I I can tell you one thing. I I can tell you one thing. I if uh if or when I do that I will maintain that I'm not a politician. I don't care for being a politician.

I have a finite amount of time to do the job and then I'm out and I've got to have everything if I go in to actually make sure that we can overhaul this place and leave it for younger people to then take over in an institutionalized process. Right? You don't leave a company okay without having proper way in which the board can put in the same quality of people at the top. This is what you got to think right. So if you do that way okay and you can overhaul it. I've restructured two companies you know two corporation not just two companies two corporation. So uh and not

to mention the whole 15 years of my time of going through the cycle of up and down of uh of of economic cycle you know the boom and b cycle that we have right so this is what I want to bring in. Yeah. Um and more than likely to answer you to cut the whole story short right more than likely yes. Anyway uh if you guys you know like and subscribe please. Okay, we we have a nation to save. We have a nation to save. There you go. All right. And thanks, Oito, for the coffee. It's great coffee. So, the the guy that's actually behind the scenes now helping us um that was

fixing the technical um gutshot uh issues. I remember when we were at court, right, in the morning. Uhhuh. And we we sat down like I could see at the entrance the door, not everyone from the outside can come inside. I saw someone like this. He was like five like that. And I thought, who's that? I thought like, "Wow, we got supporters." Uh, it was weak. It was Yeah. Shamsu. I couldn't I couldn't see him because why I was rushing in a hurry. I left everything uh at my mom's house cuz I was at my mom when he called. Okay. Yeah. I was visiting my mom. So I and I didn't

even bring my glasses. So I had the whole time when we were detained, I had no glasses. I couldn't see who you mentioned. Who was that? I said, "I don't know. I can't see. Is it Is it bad? I I think you mentioned how many What's the degree? It's about 350 or something like that for for uh I I can't see far. You can see things closer. I can see things close but I can't see far if you know and he was at the door at behind the magistrate and when you mentioned that to me I was like I don't know I can't see I don't know who it is. So I felt bad because you know people coming to support us and

I I I I can't even acknowledge him. I don't know I I can't see any face you know. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was fun. Yeah. Good to see support. Yeah. What um what was I saying before? Oh yeah. Some follow-up questions bro. So yeah I um I like I like a lot of the of the things that you want for our country. I would want to see that too bro. But there's so many questions, okay? And these questions are pretty much how how do we how how do you how do you get there? What is the what is the pathway? Because this is something that me and Venod also discussed on my podcast, right?

I guess the the most the thing that that stands out to me is you guys are Huh? Why? Huh? What do you I saw that my mom was uh not my mom, my sister showed it to me. I was like, you guys were talking about me wanting to be PM blah blah blah. You know, I say I never spoke of that about that in public. I you know I have said if I was PM, yeah, this is what I would do. You guys are like nuts. No, you know. No, but in my defense during the podcast, I remember I said to to Veno, has he said that before? I I I don't know. I think he has. We're not sure. And you know what I did

because of that? I went to the AI and I check have the host of Gutshot podcast ever said in public that he wants to be the prime minister you know and the AI come back no he has demo just to double check yeah just in case I forgot right but you know if I was PM this is what I would do I that's normal for me to say that's normal for anyone to say for that matter you know okay um I guess anyway go ahead sorry I guess um whether or not you you want to the uh uh PM that is the position you have to be to make the most changes. um most reforms. Yeah, I see a lot of um obstacles man in

the way. Um apart from the fact that I see a lot of obstacles apart from the fact I know that song. Okay. I don't know that song. Must be an old song. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Apart apart from the fact that I think Simon and Gunk. Yeah. Apart from the fact that your uh political rivals are are going to do whatever they can to stop you. Um whether it is nasty or it is clean in how they do it. You you are um you are liberal, right? Yeah. You are very much a a left. I'm I'm very much a liberal person. Yeah. And that is um that's a big mountain to climb if you need to. Well, let's put it this way.

Yeah. Because the message is let's put it this way. people are actually a lot of people are feeling notice I mean among the pe among um so the change I've always said the change will come from people who think all right who are educated okay the change will come from this group of people um either entering politics or supporting their pol uh these people that enter into politics okay so when you talk like that that's why I said my cut short sometime people say why am I talking in English because I want to talk about things that actually people who are thinkers

will be able to digest okay and uh and actually bring those who doesn't together with them okay that's the strategy okay so that means you are looking at a certain constituency, okay, of uh that kind of demographics, right? And that demographic and that constituency then must really understand that if they truly want change when people like this, okay? cuz it's not going to be one person. It's going to be a number of percents come in and provide you a fresh start. You then have to have to support the the person and really drop all the old ways, all the old hats,

all these people that has been that has created what we have today. Okay. your loyalties uh in terms of your ethnic loyalties or your um your your political loyalties must go away. Okay? And you must vote for this change. Okay? And that change can only come when new faces come on board. So um so that's the that's the first hurdle you have to take. Yeah. Right. Okay. So um like any business like any any person who I always look at it like you know your constituency your shareholders there right are they the right market for your message. So that's your first thing that you have to do. Okay. If

they're the right market that's where you sell it. That's where you sell your shares. and you want the constituent, the shareholders to buy those shares, you got to make a compelling case and they also have to realize that okay, I've got this chance now to make the change. Let's do it together. That's the way I see it. Okay. Uh your constituents that I guess you are referring to like let's say if you run for MP so whoever you have to run for MP. Yeah. Yeah. Whoever you got no choice. Yeah. Whoever is in that constituency. Um but let's say if you're you're

campaigning and you go down to the Kong Kongs and all I I I guess to to easier easier way to answer the question if you were talking to um some of the majority races what would you say to them to win them over? Well, I mean if you talk about just if you if you talk about Malays, right? Yeah. Okay. This is the thing people don't understand about because people assume that um they are happy in being um very conser in very conservative and that's about it. But obviously we're all right. Yeah. We just want to see better for our country. You see you see let's say you got a pie of 100. Okay.

Okay. uh from the from from uh of of Malay voters. Okay. All right. There's about 30% you cannot change in terms of how they going to vote. Right. If they don't think Do you think so that that probably done if they are past supporter and they are hardcore like that they're going to vote that way. Okay. Um then you've got the middle what I call the the the middle ground. Okay. those that whose concern are their day-to-day bread and butter. Okay. Then you've got the uh the tinkers within that which is then you're talking about high high M4 uh M40 or even B40 who actually don't

underestimate people who are you know down on their luck. Okay. But really yeah people want the bread and butter issues. Okay. I mean the majority of people want the bread and butter issues. It's just the economy, right? Their children's education, how is their future going to look like, right? And the thing that I I always say is that a leader does not follow the masses. The leader actually shows the way for the masses. Okay? So, as far as I look at it and the other thing is actually to be able to tell them, look, this is my story and it's I'm not the only story. Okay? We have we are capable.

we can do this and what you do is show them a different path. What is happening with our political uh people is showing them a path that is divisive because that's the only way they can get the votes and that includes even DAP. Yeah. Yeah. DAP uh uh uh uh uh pretty pandering, you know, to the lowest common denominator, you know, in that partic in in that group. No, no, no, no. That's not what I want to do. In order to change the country, you have to change how the people going to look at things, right? So that's what you got to do. So I will do that when I have to do that, you

know? I don't want to go into too much detail at the moment because very simple these are strategic point that I've been thinking to myself for the last I would say month or so. Yeah. Right. It has become an accelerated thing. Mhm. Um and more than likely let's see you know exciting times are coming. Yes. Yeah. Um I guess in less than a year and a half man. No, I I I I think for me personally the decision has to come. I am I'm you know the decision has to come very soon. Yeah. Okay. Uh who who are you who are you going to work with? Who are you going to work with? The people

leave it that for a while. Okay. So you know sometimes movie suspense you know. Yeah, definitely there's a suspense, bro. People want to know. Yeah, but uh but but if if I were to throw my head into the ring, one other question that people ask me is actually in the in the chats or in the commentary. Uh you know, they always say this, you know, people always say this, this is it. And then when they get into power or they get voted in, you know, they get corrupted. It's it's like the George Orwell's animal farm, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the fighting what the pigs all

rebel the animals rebel and then once they get into control they themselves become the monsters that they they trying to fight off yeah well you see this is why I keep telling people we need to bring people outside of the political circle okay that's that's number one because why uh uh they have not yet been corrupted by that system as much as possible okay that's a in terms of statistically prob probability that is very high. Okay. The second part is actually you are getting people who are sacrificing their freedom you know in terms of their personal privacy okay to do national service.

This is a very different kind of mindset you know when you walk in you are not starting there because uh when you're young people say because I've heard this I have heard this you know that you know uh my my my uh my Chinese friends and all that used to tell me oh you know when I was young okay uh my parents would say you got to be MCA to actually make do something uh you know yeah that was I I remember hearing also stuff like that last time you or you know so no so so hold on let me finish this this thought okay so you are getting you want to get people look at myself

I I don't need the business I have no interest I don't care you can't be swayed by money you can't be swayed by money I think Elon put it right very very basic you know he was asked the same question you know when he bought Twitter right basic say, you know, are you not uh worried that it is going to affect uh your political, you know, your your your your political voice? Is it going to affect your the the shares of Tesla, right? He was asked this and what did he say? He quoted one of my favorite movies which I was, you know, which is the Princess Bride. Okay, I don't know if

any of you guys have not seen the movie. The best movie to watch with your daughter if she's 8 years old or seven years old or even six years old. I used to watch this movie with my daughter all the time. The Princess Bride. Okay. Uh that was that was the debut of Robin Wright. Robin Wright pen. Okay. So I can go off tangent guys. Okay. So anyway, wait. What was the quote? The quote is this. Oh, you haven't said it. Okay. The code is this. when um uh uh when the pane the the the black he the uh the swordsman in black we I forgot his name out of the blue. Okay. Uh yeah.

Yeah. Inigo Mononttoya. Okay. Was about to kill his uh uh for the re the six the six-finger man. Okay. who who was the king or was it no king is that or or the sheriff over there uh who killed his father. Okay. So he says, "Offer me money. Offer me power. I don't care." Does that sound familiar to you guys? I don't care. All right. All right. Do we get it? No. No. I'm not angry with you guys. Okay, I don't care, you know. Offer me money, offer me power. I don't care. I'm here to save the country. That's it. Does it answer that?

Yeah. It also uh it also rings some bells, man. What you what you said on my podcast, too. Yeah. you know I'm 62 I've been there done that how many times you know you want to offer me money as if do you know when I started businessh actually uh my own you know I've been conned so many times when I was in my initial attempts that I told myself this you know I don't care how much the opportunity these people put in front of me if I don't like your face. I walk away. But why? I mean, so a lot of like our corrupted politicians, right? It's not as if they are struggling. They

are already doing fine, but the money is never enough sort of that that thing. But for you is it was different because Yeah. Because you see, money has never been the the motivation in my life from day one. Understand? Money has never been my motivation. Okay. I was only interested to actually be an engineer. Okay. I the first car I bought was a Suzuki uh uh 410 or something like that. You know those the the the tin can Yeah. You know, Suzuki Jeep. All right. When I was in MI, you know, uh because I thought I was going to be a blueco collar chemical engineer, right, for Shell.

Um and then my wife got pregnant and you know I I I had to change car because that car was very bumpy, right? Uh so even when I was started my my my working career, I never started to work for money. I was ear earning 800 ringgit a month in my first job and then I turned down a,400 ringit job from Jabatan Alamkita because I was learning more at the job I was doing. Okay. I guess um better way to put it is like the material came along with the it's a byproduct. Yeah. It's a byproduct of the e effort of the learning and the hard work that you put in. Yeah. Right. I never imagined I would be

running a business. So, so then you said it from um from very from young it was always like this. Why why do you think it was that way? I don't know. I have to be honest. I don't really know except I can must say to be to to a certain extent it's like my when I did the podcast with my sister I think this these traits are what my father's legacy is. Did you have material when you were a kid? We had we are okay. We are not rich. We are not I mean we we my father was a primary school teacher. My mom was a primary school teacher. That's it. My grandpa had a sundary shop

that I go to work during holiday you know uh in Pinang. So I would go from Skatani to Pinang you know to uh uh to work uh during the holidays. Okay. And I guess your parents were also definitely never materialistic. Not that I can think of. I I I I remember Oh wow. this one. I remember my dad was going to get into the palm oil business uh with his friends and he was buying seedlings and all that and my mom make a big deal out of it. You know that uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My mom make a big deal out of it because he was spending too much time uh outside. Yeah. And

my dad just decided this is not worth his effort and just you know because uh not worth the nagging. Yeah. Yeah, you know that was my dad, right? And he used to tell he he he told me a long time ago when my grandpa passed away cuz my grandpa did pass away with quite a bit of uh assets that he unfortunately for Muslim family um he had put all those assets under his mother's name. Your grandpa put under his mother's. Yeah. He loved his mother so much that he put all the assets under his mother's name. So can you imagine the the the the way the Muslim inheritance is and my dad was the eldest

in the in the clan right and my dad couldn't be bothered to actually uh work and and get it together and and and work out and I remember him saying this to me those are not my uh my properties those are not my assets those are my fathers it doesn't belong to me and he couldn't be bothered so that kind of attitude. It's not that I think we shouldn't strive for for for wealth, right? But that's not the driving force of it. I strive for learning. I strive for actually achieving. So what do I want to achieve when I do something? If I go into business, what do I want to achieve? Obviously, I want

to achieve a good bottom line so that I can grow the business. It's not really to make it re make myself rich. you know that comes along with it, right? So the same goes here in the sense that what is the achievement we want? The achievement we want is actually to make this country great, right? To make the people better, to have their lives look better. And that is to me is the deliverables and actually the satisfaction that is more than enough. You know, one of the most satisfying thing for me in running a business or pe is actually looking at people who have

worked with you for years and see that their life has been so much better because of them working with you or for you. They approve they their life improves along with you. Yes. So that is it's not uh it's sort of also is the act of giving or giving back. Yeah, it's is is is it's not lip service. This is the problem with our politics. We don't have I no I think most people have have that in them as well. I'm I'm sure you believe most people are good. We No, I don't. You don't. Most people Yeah. I don't. Most people are selfish. But I think most people if they can they will lend a helping hand.

No. The the evolutionary trait. Okay. Here's the scientist in me. True. Okay. All right. We survived because of a selfish gin. Yeah. As what Richard Dawkins would have had wrote. All right. Was it uh what was that? The selfish gene was a book. Okay. Okay. A natural selection. Natural selection. Okay. Who who was the who who brought Darwin Darwin Darwin. Okay. So, but here's the thing. love Richard Dawkins in terms of the evolution of society, okay, we learned that being able to uh get the society to move ahead, okay, or or and for you to actually be uh be successful, you have to work with each

other. That is also an evolutionary trait. Okay? But it's because of selfishness. All right? That's the at the end of it. Okay. So for me, what's my selfishness? My selfishness is actually to see my achievement, not the money. I want to see my achievement. I'm sorry. I want to achieve what is good for the country. I don't think you have to be sorry for that, bro. I know. I mean I I but that's that's that's the that's the selfishness of what I'm looking at you know right so it is to my own satisfaction you know I'm not that I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm not that uh altruistic

why you don't but why you don't think the people are most people are are nice by nature people are goodhearted no no no it also depends on the condition because actually when we are born as a blank slate. Yeah. Okay. We need food. Okay. Right. In order to survive, nature is the one that teaches us to actually become good people. All right? If you leave to nature and you throw uh them into the jungle and they have to survive, okay, they're not going to be altruistic unless they know that they can uh and if you are left alone. Yeah. But if you are in a group, then

you learn to actually probably try to survive together, right? Because that is that gives you more chances for survival. But why when human society started okay we had endless tribal conflicts I think because they were just raiding each other. Yeah. Right. This is the nature of human being actually. Okay. So it is our background. That's why it comes back to your story about when we were in the black mario, right? If you come from a background where it is the survival of the fittest alone, you'll be raiding each other as well. You'll be raiding each other as well. So

that's why I say when we want to choose people to represent us, we must look at their background. We must look at their uh how they were educated. We must look at uh beneath their their track record. Yeah. Right. If you've got if if and and and we must analyze the character, right? And be very discerning. Unfortunately, our people, you know, I must say, you know, this is this is why you need good leaders. A country is look at Singapore. Why Singapore? Why do Malaysians not like to be compared to Singapore? Um I think it's because of uh a racial thing. Uh number one. Number two is

because it's very difficult for us to accept that they are more successful than us and they've done it differently than us. Okay. But you know look at Singapore. Why are really the only difference between Singapore and us is Lie Kuwanu. One man can make a difference. This is what I want to tell everybody as well. One man can make a difference. But you have to believe in that man. Okay. How all woman. Yeah. You know, you have to believe in the person and you must be able to put that person in a position to make the things happen. So, uh just just curious. safe to say

you would be very well open to female leader as well. Oh, I I I know a lot of people uh had some problems with uh uh Rafid for example, right? But but why? Just because Well, I don't know. I think because she was in charge of Miti and there was stories about the AP uh scandals and all that type of thing. But I don't know. I mean I all I knew is is this that is the character that is the track record that is the person of education that I would want to actually have succeeded mother but it could be something simple like men just can't stand some men can't stand when the female is very blunt and

loud and you know I don't know I've been friends with CT for a long time. Exactly. Yeah, you know, I you know, I'm uh so so this is this is this is what we need to do, you know, but that's that's what we need to do. Um and so does that answer all your question or you want something else? Oh, no. There's a lot of questions, but uh I got We can go in. We can go the the Huh? Wait, the No, but you won't. No, because we are parking like this. Ah no you want to answer these questions man I was I want to think about um think about people that uh in the current political scene that you want to that

you would ever work with and all but no I I think it's I think I think it's a matter of principle no because right it's a matter of principle it's a matter of actually finding uh common goals so reason why I think this is a question a lot of people want to know about is because they don't see how Um uh they think it's a very very uh uh it's a very tough mountain to climb if you do not uh work together with Of course you have to work together. Of course you have to work together. All right. Let's put it this way. Of course we have to work together. Right. But I think um there are

ways and means to work together and that will come. Yeah. And once I make once we I I I make a decision you will know. Okay. Can't wait, man. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait, man. Yeah. You really know? I think really. Yeah. I mean, for the lack of better word, you know, I mean, I look at all the all the urgings I've been getting uh personal uh and through the podcast, you know, it's almost come to a point where um do I really have a choice? It's almost been thrust upon me rather than actually my choice. They know sometimes as they said but that's the the nature of this

political system. How are you going to how are you going to slay the dragon without an an army of your own? Let's stop there first. Right. As I said I mean I don't go into any business and polit or or this political battle so to speak. Uhhuh. You know, I look at it as a business in a sense that as I said, the the citizens are my shareholders, right? And what do I want first? First, I have to get one uh a market share in a in the in in in a certain constituency, right? Okay. That's what I'm going to do. Okay. One step at a time. I told you that when we were detained,

one step at a time. Don't worry about Okay. Be ready for the worst. Yeah. This guy was asking me, "Are we going to get released today? Are we going to get released today?" When the cops were talking to me, he was like, and I was telling him, "No, no, no, no, no. We're not going to get released today cuz why?" I I don't want to give his hopes high. Yeah. There was uh No, he already telling me. No, no. He knew about four or five hours before and he didn't want to tell me. Yeah. Which I found it very rude. Yeah. It's not rude. It's very simple. I'm protecting you. Okay? I

don't want if until I see it delivered, right? I would rather have your mindset be ready for the worst case scenario. I I I I already struck in my in my mind to be prepared for 7 days, which is what they wanted. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so rather than have you hoping and have you be devastated if it fail, I rather get get you prepared. Uh, let's move on from that. Let's move on from that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, hey, you know what? Since we live king, right, I'll tell you something. Okay. I'll I'll let's end interesting note. I want to show you something. Show the guy something.

I got this These three things I separated out before the broadcast. Daredevil. Yes. Yes. These were your collections from a kid. Yeah. I Well, I did not have the collection because when when I came back from university, all my books all my mom was almost crying when she Okay. So, this is my favorite superhero, Daredevil. Okay. All right. Yeah. What's his name? The Mad Dog. Madm. Yeah. He was a lawyer. I wanted to be a lawyer actually when my first uh choice. Okay. And his his uh his his moto is the the man without fear. Okay. So this my favorite. Okay. That's uh that's the the the run by uh M

uh Michael Bandis and Mike Malif, I think. All right. Uh it's it's about that. It's uh I think it's called the ark the daredevil uncovered ark. This these are all in good condition. No no this one was I bought much later when I was already I bought this at Kinoa a long time ago. No wonder because u you know it pile up all the issues into one uh graphic novel right do you have any from you really don't have any from my uh young days anymore. The termites ate it all. The ate it all. All my Any Brighton collection, all my, you know, my my my uh average collection all gone. All

right. Uh this I think I read when I was about eight or nine. Oh, you were telling me about this uh when we were detained, man. Yeah. Warlock. Yeah. Your favorite. This uh this one is um is um uh what do you call uh Warlock which uh James G put in his uh Guardians of the Galaxy, you know. Sorry to cut you. You know, during our during our podcast, right? Then there was something like you were talking about uh you had a serious uh defining moment when you were in uh Sultan Abdul Hammed where you you suddenly flip a switch line, you went serious for the whole year like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Then I asking you, do you think that that sort of um that sort of uh like like uh hide in your in your in your cave and then uh do like some rigorous training stuff like that had to do with uh inspirations from comic books and all? No, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. That that was more because I was failing in form one. Okay. I was very bad in my mathematics. I was failing and uh it it dawned on me that if I don't do something I remember the moment actually I was looking at the mirror I said to my to myself I said who the hell is going to marry you you ugly

so women women was also motivation you you so I was like I was like yeah I got to make something out of myself I don't know whether you shared this but you you met your wife in uh high school right Sorry. College, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, did you at that moment did you No, no, no. That was about that that that is form four. Okay. You haven't even met her yet? No. No. I was like uh my thought was actually um this is um Did you have a girlfriend yet? No. Never. Never. Yeah. So, it came after the the drastic change. Yeah, it's like it's it's it's just the the occurrence the thinking

that you know you got to make something out of for yourself out of yourself. So, no, I mean it doesn't happen to everyone. Ah, some people just like it. I No, because Yeah, they shy away. I I think I think I had two choices cuz I was getting I felt I was getting bullied and I was like I got two choices. I either uh lash out at uh the people or I put effort into myself, you know, and uh you let the results talk. Let the result talk for itself. Yeah. And I end up with SRP uh you know, all straight A's, which was a shock to the teachers because they hardly know

me, you know, and I was uh I don't know whether I was by I was definitely the top three student in the whole school. Bro, you I don't know whether you uh have you I don't know whether back then right have you seen the what do you call it the so you know how uh our our like SR SRP right SRP yeah now SRP no more yeah I know but it's our SPM but no we have SPM we have SRP and SP oh sorry this PMR right SRP I don't know I I from three from three and from five from three and form five yeah so what I'm saying is back then right did they also have like the the the bell curve is

really like sorry the passing grade. Yeah. Uh like no I don't know I can't remember. No no no I mean it's it's all bell curve. Yeah. So I went and saw recently just yesterday I was seeing right. I was so surprised man a minus for most of the subjects is 60. Crazy. Was it like that but no that's why I was wondering. No and and I can tell you already now. But there were some sub subjects I saw to get a uh to get a C, right? It's like 30 plus to get a C, you know, it's crazy. This is the problem with our education system as well because then what you're doing is you're feeding, you know, people

uh who didn't deserve it. But why do they do that? Is it I mean, the only thing I can think of is just an image thing to me. Exactly. It's absolutely an image. Is there any other reason? No, it's absolutely an image uh reason to ped up your statistics. The stats. Yeah. To pet the stats and actually and and and then because why? Because you've got a very this is what you call you know you know the sink when the water flow down the drain, right? This is the system that we have created and then going through the funnel. Then these people become teachers. So your system get worse and worse every

year. But so are you sure in your time there was no such thing? I can tell you right straight away I can tell you. Yeah. when I did SRP. Yeah. Okay. I know if you make two mistake your A2 and for your whatever test or what compared to when you're in your final SRP is the same. Same it's going to be like so something interesting right my generation nobody had as much straight A as today you know I can tell you there were only three of us in the whole school. There were only three of us in the whole school because it's not easy to get. Yes. Yeah. I'm You see I'm looking at for SRP.

Yeah. So for SPM, right? Um I had not proud of this. I had two A's and I got the 6B plus. Uhhuh. So I'm looking at the the curve now, right? I'm thinking like man. I could have gotten so much more. No, but but something but it doesn't help you. No, but something interesting I want to say, right, bro? When we were in school, right? I don't know whether your daughters all taught this your daughter taught this way as well but it's like you know when teachers are telling us about trial exams and your and your SPM they will say like oh there's a bell curve you know but then the the bell

curve will so you get 70 or 60 it wasn't 60 plus back then it was like 70 it's already a minus like that stuff like they were telling us oh there's a bell curve and then we just we never questioned it we just thought like oh okay there's a bell curve and it should be that way there's no like why is there a bell curve What's the purpose of it? You know, so students didn't even think about it. I I I don't I mean I mean what has happened with the bell curve? Huh? Actually, things that it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't go like this. Actually, what they have done is they have moved it backward.

Okay. It's not a bell anymore. It's not a bell anymore because if you have a true bell, okay, your your your your coming down curve that end point there, that's your A. So by right, you should not have any any bigger than 5% or or or even less than that. So what they're actually doing is they're adjusting the passing grade based on how much they want to have people who get a the KPI that they have to hit. Okay. So yeah, so we are pushing through people that actually should not have gotten to university. All right. Then when they come out, see when you go to university,

there's a certain expectation already. And there's no bell curve. Yeah. And the same goes in the university as well is happening the same thing. All right. In our our local universities or international is also like that in our local I don't know about international today because during the my time it was very rigorous, right? But I've been reading about what has been happening on their side as well on the western side because of the DEI. Yeah. To me, DEI is is is equivalent to the NP. Okay. So, you're just destroying society by not rewarding real merit. Okay. By not

putting You can only become a good boxer if you put in effort into boxing. You can only become uh uh uh what do you call if you you know Messi doesn't become Messi you know I mean even with all his talent if he doesn't put the effort I was I was watch I was watching the interview with Beckham. Yeah. And Beckham was saying that he's the first guy to come to the training. He's the last to come out. Yeah. Yeah. And he was already how how old is he now? 38. I don't 50. No. No, no, not 80. Are you talking about Beckham? No, I'm talking about Messi. Oh, Messi is uh 40 40 already.

Coming to 40 already, right? I don't know. But Beckham's Beckham's story is very Yeah. This is he will hang his jersey at a goal post and free kicks is his thing where he will hang his jersey at a goal post, stay back for hours, pum pom, just keep hitting. And that's how he got so good at free kicks. Yeah. So you have to put in, you have to build the muscle, right? So the same goes with education and your boxing an analogy. You you can sugarcoat it. You can tell yourself lies or whatever, but once the bell rings and you're inside there against your opponent, the truth will come out.

Oh, they you going to get punched hard in real life. You'll get exposed. Yes. You know, so yeah, this is one thing that my dad told me. He said he said this to me. I guess these are also things that actually uh this one make who the way I am. He had this that stuck in my brain. He said anything that comes easy in life is not real. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I I I I turned down that 1,400 job at Jabatanita and stuck with my 800 job. You know why? Cuz I already wanted to go and and and and join Jabatkada. Not because of the,400. It's because when I went to take uh the scholarship

for chemical, I was going to get bonded with the government. All right? And I already pre-planned I'm going to take what course and I say where would I be ended up working? I came all the way to Koala Lumpo from Sugapatani on a bus to go to the library because there were no internet this right to go to theustaka dawam. Okay. The National Library at that time was right across from Sabi building. Okay. Uh in Jalan Rajal. Okay. And I researched all the government department. This is how internet, bro. Huh? There's no internet. Yeah. I was 16 years old. I was 16 years

old and I was looking at it because they told me that if you're going to go to uh take law, you got to go to UK. Yeah. Right. And I don't want to go to UK. I want to go to US. Right. So I said okay like that I'm going to take engineering right I was going to do what? So I went in and I look at all the jabatan kajan and see where which jabatan has the most empty boxes. This is how simplistic a 16 year old boy was thinking right and it was department of environment they were relatively new department. I say aa I can get up on this because they they got a lot of boxes empty.

So so I made a decision I narrow it down to do either environmental engineering or chemical engineering because I was very good in chemistry. Okay. I made the decision to go to chemical engineering because I thought environmental engineering would pigeon hole me whereas chemical engineering was more broad. Okay. So that was how I thought. So when I got the job, it was three opening and they told me a 700 applicant. I got the job. I thought I would never get the job. I was I went for the interview a few months before I got my first job. How many were they taking? Huh? 700.

It was a recession in 1986. Okay. I went for the interview earlier. I thought I would never get the job because I was arguing with the interviewer who's the director. I said no way I'm going to get this job then. Right. So I then I I got a job 800. I was selling chemicals and doing field work at palm oil mills uh in K. Is it? Yeah. In K. And I was I was your first time like living in K. Yeah. I was staying first with my uncle and then I had my own place. So you actually never live like for extended period of time in KL before that? No. Okay. That was um I mean after SPM I

went straight to university. Never stayed with my parents anymore after that. M right. So uh and I actually thought this is like you know fate you know. Yeah. Right. So I I actually tended my resignation to my boss. I said I think this is fate. Chan my boss is a guy by the name of KM Chan. Shout out KM if you're listening. he's still a good friend of mine, right? So, um I went to put in my papers, right? And then I sat and then the guy the HR guys asked me to wait. The director wants to speak to me. I think I was there for 20 to 30 minutes at the Sabbi building. Actually, it was at Sabi

building you know. So, I sat there waiting 30 minutes. You know what I think it was about that? It was too quiet. I said, "I cannot work in this place. This is too quiet. It It doesn't fit me." So I went back to the HR guy. I said, "I think he look at me, you know, blank, you know." So this guy, you what's wrong with this guy? He then ran to me and said, "Hey, right, with the allowance, 4, you know, are you sure?" And that's that's a huge uh huge deal for someone your age. Yeah. At that time. At that time, and I was like I was like I I told him this. I said, "I'm learning

a lot from my job. I'm happy." Okay. I said, "A lot of people know job, you know." And I took back my papers and walk out. And I came back to my boss Chan. I said, "Chan, I'm back." He laughed. I tell you, he was laughing. But then, oh yeah, never seen in a long time. We used to go and have lunch together once in the blue moon. I should go and catch up with him again. Yeah, that's that's I'm like that. That's just me. So I forgot how we got to this point already. Forgot how we got to this point. Well, we were talking about Warlock, right? We were talking about Warlock and

then I was I was I I had this as well which is the return to depression economics for Paul Krugman. This is the first economics book I probably have ever uh read because I wanted to learn what was happening in 19 uh in uh in in in in 86 86 uh in uh 97 97 or 98 crisis the Asian one the yeah the financial crisis so I say I I need to learn so this the first book but warlock as a you know affected me a lot as a young man because I Because from this actually this this series this is the Madu saga they call it right it made me very suspicious of organized religion so I

yeah so it it had a very big impact on me so I I'll be honest man um the only thing I know about Warlock is uh is one of the person in Guardians of Galaxy. Yeah. Give me the gist of it. Yeah I hate that man. The way James Gun treated Warlock. I mean um uh you're a purist. Uh yeah, I'm I'm I'm such a nerd, you know. I mean uh he is created by group of scientists actually. All right. So uh and um and basically he's like the Superman version of uh of of of the of Marvel universe. Okay. Okay. And he has the gemstone here. Okay. the green soul stone that was uh that that they brought in

that actually take your take the soul of the person who died. Uh-huh. Okay. So you can kill So he every time he uses the soul stone to kill somebody, right? All the soul is is absorbed into that stone of that person that he killed and he will go through his whole lifetime of the person he killed. And it guts him because he sees when the person was not bad, how many children he had or whatever, you know, it's a constant guilt. It's a constant guilt. Yeah. All right. So that that's the and the best part about this for a young kid, right? The villain is muggus. He is like a god

in the you know, but I mean he have a there is a it's called the church a universal truth. Okay. his uh that's what he his his religion become evolved right so so he was fighting Maggas and the revelation is spoiler alert the revelation is Maggus is actually the future of Warlock ah this is a that was so awesome for a 8-year-old kid YOU KNOW SO THE the villain is himself you know in the future Right. That was so cool, you know. So, it's just um it's understanding how he got to that point. Yes. And and and and I guess that informed me. If there's anything in terms of impact,

there were two things. There's a lot of things that impacted me. I one other thing is also um damn I'm talking to you. I'm talking a lot. No, no. This is the Gutshot podcast and I'm the host and I'm interviewing Sho on the Gutshot podcast. Whatever you know we were we were we just wanted to part today to be honest. I I'm going to wrap up with this story actually. Okay. True. Okay. I was at my I used to watch uh RTM2 with my dad you know when we were in is RTM2 TV2 TV2. Okay. Um, and it was in black and white, of course, you know, and I I always sit uh at the floor and he's on

the at the chair and then we would watch things like, you know, uh TV series like one of his favorite is uh All in the Family with Achie Bunka who is a racist. Okay, you can't make this type of series anymore. All right, it was a it was a comedy. But there was one movie called um there are two movies. One is uh that that that actually impacted me. One was with Shirley Mlan. I got to remember what the name of the movie is, you know, where you know she was like this very kind-hearted person but always taken the advantage of and she comes from what they call a bad background. Okay. Why?

A bad background. You know, women of uh you know of a bad repute, right? Prostitution. Yeah. Uh but what what that movie showed me was actually uh don't judge people like what you said when we were in the black market. Yeah. No, really it's Yeah. You know, you just ask the question why I I mean what would you do differently? Nothing. Because you've gone through every experience. So you you you you learn empathy, you know. You learn empathy. Uh so that that's that's that's just a short story because uh you know always when I talk about my dad I will I you know I get I you know I tend to get I

don't know that day I get choked up quite a lot on that. Which day? The one when I was uh with my sister I think because I was with my sister I think us reminiscing about our dad was uh you know really got to me. Bang. Yeah. Yeah. Did you did you um you see this? Let's try to wrap up in about five or 10 minutes. No, no, the last one. I just want to I just want to ask like were you a fan of P Romney movies? I I guess I was when I was young. I mean I love those puja story. Uh I I brought up the da uh for the for my criticism of the Najit case ped. Um but I must to be honest it doesn't hold up.

Of course not. I you see someone like myself I watch it now I cannot say it holds up. Yeah I can't but for for when you were young in our time and a local Malaysian person films like that. It was it was it was uh it was quite fantastic. Right. But I mean if you ask me again today there are some movies that I love in the 70s that doesn't hold up. I mean, uh, I remember I I think Logan's run. I love Logan's Run. Don't even know what's up. Yeah. Um, uh, that, um, and, um, it doesn't hold up, you know. Um, the movies from the '90s holds up better. Fight Club.

Fight Club is one of my f I wouldn't say one of my favorites. Wrong. The director is my f one of my favorite. David Fincher. I would watch anything made by David Fincher. It was a book first, then it became a Yeah, that was amazing. Um I think the last one was uh he had it, but I was so surprised he had the killer on Netflix, you know, which is with Michael Fbander. The name is The Killer. The movie. Oh, you got to watch it. Uh and uh it's a slowburn. Um I mean any movie with Michael Fast Bender or Tilda Swinton, I will watch. Okay. Uh, and it's made by uh, David

Fincher. Done deal. I'm in. You know, I I wish they had shown it on the on the cinema because that that movie deserve the cinema treatment. The killer. That movie deserve Hey, by the way, I watched uh two uh two uh two to two to two to two to two to two to two since uh our detention. I think two of the good movies that just came out and both of them were horror movies actually. Which one? Um, one was back rooms. Hey, I watched You asked me to watch uh Weapons. No, Parasite. No, I don't know. I never Sorry. I've never watched Parasite. Not Parasite. Uh, I have I've got to get myself to watch

Parasite. I've never watched Parasite. The Yeah. Did you like it? Watch this. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Uh, Korean Korean movie. Korean. I love that movie. I will watch it once a year. Korean uh Asians, man. Asians have great horror movies. Yeah. I mean look at their standard. Why? They have the creative freedom allowed. Yeah. Here everything you have to submit to finance. You cannot say you cannot show uh uh a bad religious person. You cannot show a bad cop. You cannot. So it it doesn't make sense from our there's no realism whatsoever. Can you I've heard of this before. You

really cannot show a cop being bad. And that's weird because there are good cops and there are bad cops. Exactly. And that's the truth. The reality of the world. So, so there's no creative freedom. How? So, you cannot you cannot excel. And then um but the other movie I was watching, you must watch this movie. It's called Obsession. Ah, Obsession. Yeah. That's a series also. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a movie. Do you know the guy who did this? This is his first movie. He actually he actually is a YouTuber. Uh, who? The guy who made this movie. Aussie. Is it Aussie?

No, no, no. It's American. Okay. Obsession. It's fantastic. Obsession. Yeah. 2025. Yeah. Yeah. 7.8 ratings. I I follow It's better than 7.8. I would give it I would give it almost a nine. I'm talking about IMDb. Do you follow IMDb? No, I don't really. I just go and watch whatever. 7.8 is good, man. For IMDb, very good. Yeah. Very good. But I would give it actually 8.9 or 8.8. eight like let's say fight club like that is about 8.8 8 like that on uh on IMDb. Fincher's best movie in my opinion for me. I mean, of course, he's got a few number one on IMDb is Godfather.

Oh, I I mean I I watch Godfather every year. Uh cuz I love everything. Every time I watch it, I see something different. I watch um you know the other thing the other one I I I was telling you when we were in detention I said you must watch the talented Mr. Ripley. I heard of it. That's with Matt Damon uh Jude Law and uh and also what's what's her name? Uh uh Gina Paltro. It's her it's a best movie if you ask me. Did you watch Sopranos? And and and hold on. And um the um uh it's Philip Simo Hoffman's Breakout Road. I love Philips Hoffman. Yeah. Sopranos. Yeah. I I I finished the

series. I like Sopranos. Yeah. But sometimes the problem with American Puna series, they drag it too long. Yeah. They want to keep keep the money. I know. They need they need the gravy train. Whereas the British the British movie doesn't drag so long, you know. I've been I'm watching Slow Horses, so I'm waiting for the season 6 Slow Horses with uh what's his name? Um the guy in Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy. That's another great movie. Um don't know. You don't know Tinker Taylor? Gary Man. Gary I mean I know who's that. Yeah, with Gary Man. One of my favorites is Breaking Bad.

Oh, Breaking Bad. I love Breaking Bad. Yeah, Breaking Bad. Yeah. for this decade. Hey, sorry. Last decade, Breaking Bad was definitely one of the top. M what else? Yeah. So, I mean, I'm movies. I can talk movies as well, but uh you know, yeah, that's why you're on camera. You're like I said, man, a bit theatrical because you're a movie buff also, bro. Maybe. I have no bloody idea. When you tell stories, you you tell it enthusiastic. But that's Wonka, is it? Yeah. I'm not so exposed. We loud, you know, we are direct. We are a bit in your face, you know. That's that's just us.

That's just this is how we grew up, you know. We tell stories. Do you know fucha? Uh do you know many fucha people? I do because I live in Miri for 8 years. Yeah. So my my dad's actually fuch what I noticed fucha uh fuchcha ladies can be quite loud. Really? Yeah. Especially I'm eating I ate at this fucha restaurant in Amansurya. Uhhuh. Uh and then the fucha lady is the the lady boss and she's just shouting at the husband, you know. You know the typical just holding. Sound like sound like that that scene from um um what's that comedy? Kung fu hustle. Kufu. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

I love I love that scene also. The one she's got the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The So I Yeah. Oh, I I I was going to tell you, you know, you know, I I I digress. Let me try Let's Let's try and finish this up. I have another story to tell. We've been trying. Yeah. Yeah. What's up? Yeah. I mean, I was I was visiting I think Fucha. I don't know whether the place is called Fua or you know, but people okay because at that time we we were building two ships over there. The anchor handler. Okay. uh something like that. Okay. The anchor handler um so this big ship um was being

built there. So we were entertained as a of course we are big client right. So uh afternoon they took us out myself and my partner Francis we went out um and they had this big fucha lunch. They say authentic fucha lunch. Okay. Of course. But they know I don't take pork, so they they didn't order any pork. Which year? Um, how long ago was this? Oh, this is probably 200 probably 2004 or five around that time before China China's uh boomer, right? Well, they they are already go booming in terms of ship building. Okay. Okay. But they were still there were only a couple of yards that uh there was

already a lot of yard. Was it very metropolic yard? H I can't recall to be honest because we were in Pusha. Okay. Okay. I didn't go to Beijing or Shanghai or Guanghou or any of those places. Okay. Uh only later I went but uh I mean for that it was very industrial right? Industrial sort of city. Yeah. So they had this Oh my god. I don't know what we were eating. Why is some uh Let me put it this way. Let me put it this way. It was terrible. It's a very game game. It's so it's just so bland, right? And you know, ever since and before that. Okay. But you know, sorry.

Yeah. I'm just telling the truth. It was so bland. And some of that the fish got leg, you know. I was like, what are we eating? The fish got leg. It got legit, you know. I'm like, so it's not a full fish yet. Yeah. It's still evolving. small fish. So then or or thought I I may be you know I may have mistaken I don't know what you supposed to like one you know the question is did you tell it to them of course no of course not good and you know and you know with them is actually after a few after after you know every few minutes you know it was like you know you know uh more more food come

no the drinking oh yeah they drink like crazy right in the middle of uh afternoon man. Yeah, they get drunk. Getting drunk is part of their job for to service their client. Yeah. Um I told you this also in might be offensive to some fucha people. My my parents my dad is fucha is they they're very proud of their fucha food. Very very proud. I know and that's why they brought us there. And and the truth is right not everyone not every Chinese person also and if you're not Chinese right even more so they they don't actually like most people don't actually like fa food

you know I like it because I grew up eating it. It's different man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean my just like my my my daughter my daughter loves colop uh bolo. Yeah. Because she grew up in the hal one. I you know because uh traditionally the mikolo kami is p is it? Yeah, but they also have uh variations that one. If she comes back, she will look for Mikolo, you know. I still have it all the time. Is it? Yeah. So anyway, I think we've we've rambled on today session. Sorry guys. Okay. We just decided to, you know, have a have a get together the two amigos in, you know, in detention.

I never had uh you know, it's is weird, man. when you are younger, right? You never have you didn't think that you will have friends. Yeah. You didn't think that you will have friends 60 year old that you say that will call you dude and you call them dude. But yeah, that's why we are. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I tell you guys why we'll uh get to serious topics uh for the next episode. Okay. Yes. Um thank you to Brian. Thank Brian. Thanks for coming on, buddy. Thank you so much, Sam, for um letting me come on your podcast. Um I hope this entertained some of your uh listeners. Yeah. Whether

they they've learned much from me, but I hope I entertained you guys. Thank you guys. See you guys again. Byebye. See you.